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UnTrenched 4. What is Worth Fighting For?



 

The Grit Theory Presents: UnTrenched Genuine conversation in the pursuit of positive change.

4. What is Worth Fighting For?

Today Sandy and I explore the following 3 questions:

- What is worth fighting for? - Should everyone be willing to fight for something? - Should we expect others to commit to what we think is worth fighting for?

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08;06;30;27 - 08;06;20;23

Jonathan

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the fourth episode of UnTrenched. This is John Mayo. I joined, as always with Sandy Mayo. How are you today?


08;06;20;17 - 08;06;19;13

Sandy

Doing well. Good morning.


08;06;18;28 - 08;05;59;07

Jonathan

Good morning. I forgot to add your title, Dr. Sandra Mayo informal. Yeah, I do. All right. So, so exciting things really. Jumping off of the transition we made in the last episode, we realized we had given ourselves a slight disservice in saying that the entire premise of the show is essentially for us to fight right in general


08;05;59;07 - 08;05;42;21

Jonathan

conversation across differences like set up the wrong perception as we work through what we're working towards and still discovering that. But but what seems to make a lot more sense to us is genuine conversation in the pursuit of positive change coming together to work together to do this thing.


08;05;42;21 - 08;05;27;23

Jonathan

So that's a quick tidbit. Their second tidbit before we jump in is remember to please pay it forward if you find value in today's conversation. Please share it with subscribe. And if you don't find value, that's fine. Just wait for the next episode.


08;05;26;16 - 08;05;25;21

Jonathan

Anything to add to that.


08;05;24;27 - 08;05;17;15

Sandy

Sounds good to me. I mean, there are times we might disagree, but that's not the purpose. So, yeah, we're comfortable.


08;05;17;08 - 08;04;57;03

Jonathan

We're comfortable disagreeing. It's just it's not like you say, it's not the purpose. So, OK, all right. You proffered up some amazing questions for us to explore today. So. So in short order that the cluster of questions that we're going to talk about as concisely as is humanly possible is what's worth fighting for.


08;04;56;25 - 08;04;46;24

Jonathan

Should everyone be willing to fight for something? And should we expect others to commit to what we think is worth fighting for? So those are questions.


08;04;45;14 - 08;04;35;28

Sandy

Maybe not in that order, but I think we'll cover all of them today, and you know, like you said, I think we can be pretty laser focused and address these pretty quickly, but I think it'll be some good conversation.


08;04;34;12 - 08;04;20;20

Jonathan

I agree. And and really, it's the spirit of those three questions combined into one, right? We didn't we couldn't think of a single question that captured it. But since I always throw you under the bus with the questions, how about I take the first hit today?


08;04;20;01 - 08;04;19;00

Sandy

Sounds good to me.


08;04;18;26 - 08;04;18;02

Jonathan

Is that fair enough?


08;04;17;20 - 08;04;05;13

Sandy

Yeah, that works. Let's flip this. OK, I want to start and we can start unpacking that second piece of just sort of should everyone be willing to fight for something? What are your thoughts, John?


08;04;04;17 - 08;03;44;23

Jonathan

I think. It's absolutely essential that you find something that you believe is worth fighting for, worth sacrificing for, worth working towards, worth pursuing with every fiber of your being. And I think that in the intentional pursuit of that.


08;03;43;23 - 08;03;23;14

Jonathan

You should think out the things that. You would under no circumstance, not literally and figuratively fight to defend and protect. So it's kind of in my mind, there's a two sided coin. There are things you fight too like towards and then there's things you fight to defend.


08;03;23;00 - 08;03;00;17

Jonathan

And typically probably linked in much in the same right, it's just two sides of the coin. But the short answer is yes. And if you don't have something to fight for, I think that's. Sad, and I think that it's easily changed through some introspective thought and some evaluating what you value.


08;02;59;24 - 08;02;51;09

Jonathan

But it's definitely a spark of life that provides a whole bunch of purpose. So yes, I think that everyone should simply have. How about you?


08;02;50;07 - 08;02;39;21

Sandy

Yeah, I mean, I'm of that ilk. I think I came out of the womb fighting. So for me, that's sort of like a no brainer. Like, how how do you not have something that you're willing to fight for?


08;02;39;21 - 08;02;27;04

Sandy

I'm not sure what that would look like for me personally, but I think I think other people would reframe it. And I think for some, it would be I dedicate my life to something or I'm committed to something.


08;02;27;04 - 08;02;09;09

Sandy

Or, you know, the fight might be something that doesn't look like a fight. So I think there are people who who pray. I think there are people who are peacemakers in the midst of fighting who that is, their their purpose in their role, right?


08;02;08;26 - 08;01;43;17

Sandy

And so I'm not sure know. I'm not sure if everyone has something they should fight for, although that seems to me something that really kind of just fuels me in life, like having something that I recognize is important enough to pursue and that I really can dedicate myself to for the long haul.


08;01;42;09 - 08;01;30;03

Sandy

And so, yeah, it's it's a yes for me, but I think that people are going to approach that differently. And I think maybe some people wouldn't phrase it as fighting, but they would see it as I'm dedicating myself to towards something.


08;01;29;00 - 08;01;28;22

Sandy

You.


08;01;27;03 - 08;01;17;02

Jonathan

Yeah. Fair enough. I think I'd push back on on those who don't want to use the terminology of fighting, though, right? Because I think what you're statement's fair. Yes, some people are going to say, get, get it right.


08;01;17;01 - 08;00;54;18

Jonathan

They won't want to have like the violence of the language with fighting. And frankly, I push back and say, no, stop being so. Pandering or specific? If you if praying is your fight or your you're very peaceful nature, it's not wrong to address something that you are dedicated to is violence of action or passion is another word


08;00;54;18 - 08;00;40;09

Jonathan

for it. So, so I definitely I think that you're right in that people would approach it differently. I would challenge them to give themselves the freedom to have that level of passion engaging with their dedication as in like whether it may not be a physical fight definitively.


08;00;39;01 - 08;00;18;14

Jonathan

But but very much so. It's going to be an ideological one. If you're if you're pursuing if you're pushing against something that has any level of diversity, then there's going to be struggle and in struggle. I think it's fair to give yourself the fierceness of being a fighter mentally right for yourself from that.


08;00;17;22 - 08;00;10;14

Jonathan

So. And as you have something on that, I think it leads us right into what's worth fighting for.


08;00;09;10 - 08;00;05;22

Sandy

Yeah, go for it. You want to take that one up first or you want me to jump in.


08;00;05;10 - 08;00;02;02

Jonathan

Go for it. If you have something, let's let's go from there and build.


08;00;00;23 - 09;59;48;23

Sandy

Yeah, so I mean, I think the essence for me. You know, there are a lot of things that I could choose to fight for and I think I can name and list topics. But for me, it comes down to.


09;59;47;09 - 09;59;26;11

Sandy

Are there things that erode? People's dignity. And I think that's where I'd locate the things that I'm willing to fight for. What what are the things that we've done policies, practices, words, actions that literally erode the dignity of individuals?


09;59;25;19 - 09;59;02;14

Sandy

Those are the things that that I think are absolutely for me worth fighting for. And it stems from this idea that we're made in the image of God. And when you are. Really putting a blot on that. That's where I find my my fire sort of sparked it like this is intolerable.


09;59;02;07 - 09;58;57;23

Sandy

It's just intolerable to me. To put a mark on the image.


09;58;54;22 - 09;58;36;14

Jonathan

Yeah, I love that. And I think that's an excellent standard of think of something to to stand as a champion for and to fight to further correct right to pursue that. The idea of like. Ensuring that that is made better when I think of what's worth fighting for.


09;58;35;27 - 09;58;19;29

Jonathan

I think of it as from a two pronged kind of sandwiched like approach, and that's top down and bottom up and. I can unpack that very quickly. On the one level, there's like the systematic things that we want to fight for these high visionary level things.


09;58;19;29 - 09;58;04;13

Jonathan

So for me, it's like, I want to you use the freedoms that I possess to create more freedom for myself, my family and anyone else as the desire to do the types of things that may allow them to engage in things that will allow them for the freedom.


09;58;03;28 - 09;57;45;06

Jonathan

So on that visionary level, I think that ties in directly to what you're saying because it's like, Hey, how can I help anyone, right? Have access to the ideas, the knowledge, the resources to pursue and create greater freedom for themselves?


09;57;45;00 - 09;57;32;10

Jonathan

And how can we safeguard that so that people have at greater levels that freedom? Right? Which I think ties directly to what you said is something that you find worth fighting for. I forgot. I don't want to butcher this.


09;57;31;08 - 09;57;25;15

Sandy

You mean the erosion of the individual and human dignity to me?


09;57;25;14 - 09;57;25;01

Jonathan

Thank you.


09;57;24;21 - 09;57;24;10

Sandy

Yeah.


09;57;23;23 - 09;57;04;14

Jonathan

Yeah. So like if you if you erode human dignity, right? If you erode how people view each other, that is one that is an easy step to make it. That step makes it very easy to then take freedom away from them, resources away from them to take the ability for them to thrive away.


09;57;04;02 - 09;56;55;03

Jonathan

Because if you don't see someone else as equal to you in value, right, then. You can become a monster in how you treat them.


09;56;54;25 - 09;56;50;19

Sandy

I think that's how people thrives. I mean, to me, that's where I see evil thrive.


09;56;50;10 - 09;56;26;23

Jonathan

So we see it. It's the animal suffocation, the animal ification. Goodness gracious. The devaluing of another human being to that allows for atrocities to happen like people are monsters, but they're also capable of amazing things. And any time you see one people group slaughtering the other people group as we see all over the world today, it's it's


09;56;26;23 - 09;56;18;25

Jonathan

not an old problem and it's been repeated 100 times. It starts at the devaluing of another class of people based on some ideological belief.


09;56;17;26 - 09;56;01;07

Sandy

Yeah. And to me, it's it's in the the large and in the small. I mean, I just think about examples of things that just kind of burn within me. You know, yeah, it could be against entire people groups, you know, whether it's racism or classism.


09;56;00;29 - 09;55;40;06

Sandy

But then it could be something just as simple as it wasn't too long ago. There's a there's a gentleman in our neighborhood who he's he's clearly on the spectrum in developmental delays and he likes to dance. He just is on the street corner and he dances and he really just enjoys the entertainment factor.


09;55;39;23 - 09;55;27;02

Sandy

And some man came up to him and just basically started yelling at him, like, why is he there doing that? And I just saw his light diminish and he took everything. Your dad kind of had to hold me back in the car, honestly.


09;55;27;02 - 09;55;05;19

Sandy

But it was just this moment of like, how do you do that to another person? I've just literally tearing away at who they are and tearing away at their very dignity. And it just I would fight just as much for that as I would for any kind of acts against entire groups of people.


09;55;05;18 - 09;54;51;24

Sandy

To me, it comes down to that piece of there is a person in front of you made in the image of God in don't don't diminish that. Just don't do anything that would diminish that, that image.


09;54;50;07 - 09;54;35;22

Jonathan

And that that is so that is absolutely on point. And it's the perfect transition. So we've talked about the ideal right do not diminish the dignity and value of another human being that is directly in line with perpetuate freedom.


09;54;35;22 - 09;54;21;04

Jonathan

Create more opportunity, do not diminish it because of it for anything, right? Those things are intricately connected, and we've looked at it from this high deal. And here's where I think we can ground it and make it very, very actionable for people.


09;54;20;28 - 09;54;04;15

Jonathan

And that's looking at the individual because it all starts with the self and everything changes from how you start to self. And I was thinking about in one of our earlier conversations. There's, you know, there's frustration for how are people sleeping through problems that have been around from the conception of our country?


09;54;03;27 - 09;53;44;29

Jonathan

Well, that's because they're sleeping through life. I've been thinking about that a lot. They don't they can't see past the next two weeks. They can't see past their next, you know, distraction. Right? Netflix and chilling or getting to the weekend and and drinking or whatever the distractions are, people are walking through life asleep.


09;53;44;19 - 09;53;29;24

Jonathan

And I think that, you know, should you fight for everything? Yes. Start by fighting to live a life intentionally and in the present now by evaluating. Where are you? What are you happy with in your life and what are you not?


09;53;29;23 - 09;53;04;24

Jonathan

And be honest, when I did this assessment for myself the first time about four years ago, I realized that I was only genuinely, genuinely happy if I was honest with myself, with about 5% of who I was. I realize there's this little sliver of person that I liked in me, the rest was from feelings of apathy to


09;53;04;24 - 09;52;45;16

Jonathan

hate. And I made a decision at that moment to begin pursuing the 5% that I did like I did think was valuable. They did think was positive and burning out, cutting out. To the best of my ability over time, the 95% now four years of struggle later.


09;52;45;07 - 09;52;26;28

Jonathan

I would, I would. I would say I'm probably have a good foundation of like 40% that I'm content with, you know, and I'm I'm overjoyed to be on the journey for the rest of my life of growing as much as I can from that 40% contentment level with who I am as high as I can go before


09;52;26;28 - 09;52;24;25

Jonathan

I die, and I don't think I'll get to 100% like I.


09;52;24;22 - 09;52;23;06

Sandy

It's always a journey, right?


09;52;23;03 - 09;52;22;12

Jonathan

I mean, right?


09;52;22;04 - 09;52;20;07

Sandy

Think so. So like.


09;52;18;21 - 09;52;06;08

Jonathan

If you look at that more, though, and decide, like, yeah, let's start living in tension, if you just start tweaking that something amazing happens, I think where you start today, you start to see further, right? It's like, OK, now that I'm starting improve, I'm starting to see.


09;52;06;08 - 09;51;56;06

Jonathan

I'm not really happy with where my family is in this situation or these things or the types of behaviors we're in. Like, I don't like that. We're on the phones at dinner, what have you. And you can start making these changes now.


09;51;56;03 - 09;51;40;19

Jonathan

You're starting to find the things you want to fight for, because when you see that you don't like that, your family's on the phone at dinner. If you even have dinner with them, then you're seeing that you you're starting to find value in creating family time and creating that family or creating that value in yourself.


09;51;40;14 - 09;51;27;27

Jonathan

So you start to kind of grow. And what I'm talking about is the progression of before people can fight for the ideal, they have to be able to be willing to defend and stand for themselves, right? And then it grows to their families.


09;51;27;27 - 09;51;01;25

Jonathan

And then once they have that foundation under control, they can they can really advocate on something further out of the outpouring of the resources they have, energy wise, mentally and stuff. And I think the problem is when you start with the activism, but you have no foundation in the personal, it cheapens and creates this counterfeit where it


09;51;01;25 - 09;50;50;26

Jonathan

becomes an ideology that is so emotionally vested because it becomes who you are because you have nothing else that it can can lead to dangerous places. And I think we see that all over the place.


09;50;49;06 - 09;50;35;12

Sandy

So I want to hear a little bit more about that, but I'm trying to think so. I mean, can you even fight for something if it doesn't start from the personal? I mean, I don't know. I think there has to be something that resonates in you.


09;50;35;11 - 09;50;13;29

Sandy

It has to spark something within you personally before it becomes an outward expression that motivates you towards action, at least in my experience. I'm trying to think of an example where it's sort of like just starting from activism that's not rooted in something that connects to the individual's own experience.


09;50;13;06 - 09;49;56;28

Jonathan

Yeah, I have a few examples in mind, and it makes sense to me because you are such an intentional, introspective, thoughtful person and everything you've pursued with your life is borne from experience and then a pursuit like you don't, you are not.


09;49;56;17 - 09;49;40;27

Jonathan

My point is you're not an example of what I think most people, how they approach life, public life. So like that, that's a fair question in my mind. I see it with a lot of we see it a lot with younger.


09;49;39;08 - 09;49;18;20

Jonathan

People who have benefited from an easy life. Who find something sexy to jump on to. And then go and pursue that to create a sense of purpose when they don't have any foundation their own lives. So I think of a lot of college kids right now who don't who don't know crap about anything.


09;49;18;20 - 09;49;03;01

Jonathan

They see something that gets them emotionally jazzed. And then they start throwing all this passion and zeal at it without any understanding of real world consequences, without any understanding of how things genuinely work and that they have zero foundation, right?


09;49;02;23 - 09;48;59;15

Jonathan

Just all piss and vinegar. So that's an example that comes to mind.


09;48;58;24 - 09;48;41;14

Sandy

That makes sense. And I appreciate that. So I mean, this kind of to me leads into that third part of our series of questions this morning. Because if you're really talking about the foundations that we then kind of contribute to this idea of, this is what I'm committed to fighting for know.


09;48;41;04 - 09;48;37;08

Sandy

Should we expect others to commit to what we think is worth fighting for?


09;48;32;06 - 09;48;12;10

Jonathan

I have a two I have a two part answer to that. The first is yes and then no. Yes, yes, I should. I think I can. I think it's a fair expectation to say every single. Not just American, but human being should look to fight, to live intentionally, right?


09;48;12;10 - 09;47;51;18

Jonathan

They should strive and dedicate themselves to live intentionally, to evaluate themselves and see what is garbage and be real about it and don't glorify it and instead work to change it over time to something that's valuable, that's good, that can test difficult, that can withstand the tests and rigors of life.


09;47;51;09 - 09;47;34;26

Jonathan

Right. So in that way, I think that, yes, we should expect everyone act because that is what we need from all of our fellow human beings over fellow men and women. We need them to do that so that we can continue forward and have the chance to create value now.


09;47;33;28 - 09;47;13;15

Jonathan

The no comes in. I don't expect everyone to be have the same calling as me where I want to use my freedoms to create freedoms specifically like that is that is my bent where I realized that is, I think my calling, my purpose beyond that foundation of care, for my self, care for my family, care for my


09;47;13;15 - 09;47;09;23

Jonathan

community and growing through that. What do you think about all that?


09;47;08;08 - 09;46;54;01

Sandy

I mean, this question to me comes out of experience too, and I think I think I started with an expectation and a hope that people would fight for the things that I want to fight for. And I realize that that's not going to happen.


09;46;53;24 - 09;46;39;07

Sandy

I mean, there there are just very real examples of things that have broken me. I mean, I can I can literally think to experiences that have broken me. And one of them was the killing of Trayvon Martin. It broke me.


09;46;39;06 - 09;46;18;21

Sandy

It changed something in me. It it made me more committed to the fight I was already committed to around race based hate and injustices. And. In in that moment and since then, just seeing that there are people who don't get fired up that it doesn't.


09;46;17;16 - 09;46;03;29

Sandy

It doesn't move them in the same way. It doesn't impact them and say when I'm like, Yeah, this is this is because I have particular life experiences. This is rooted in my experience and I'm not going to be able to expect it is still my hope.


09;46;01;09 - 09;45;38;01

Sandy

But I can't. Yeah, I'm not I no longer expect people to commit to my fight. What I do expect and hope is that they can respect my reasons for wanting to fight. For particular rights justices protections. You know, valuing people in the same way.


09;45;37;19 - 09;45;20;15

Sandy

Mm-Hmm. And I think what we're where I'm challenged sometimes is when it's sort of like, why is that important to you? And it's just like, if you if you could see the heart behind my fight, I would hope that you would not question and challenge why I'm fighting for it.


09;45;20;07 - 09;45;00;09

Sandy

You may not have the same fight. I can respect that. I it hurts. I'm not going to lie. It hurts. These things are sometimes so deeply personal that I want others to join in and I want them to feel the same convictions, and I want them to see the danger behind the wrong of what I'm fighting against


09;44;59;26 - 09;44;35;21

Sandy

. But as a minimum, I think at a minimum I am at the point where I'm just like, at least don't challenge or diminish my fight because it's not something that you find important and be willing to hear the story behind how I got to that fight and actually receive it as and receive it as a as a


09;44;35;21 - 09;44;14;22

Sandy

valid experience and not just sort of cast it away as well. That's just because you and fill in the blank whenever that person's perspective, perception or assumption is about what my experiences are or what, what biases they feel have led me to the particular conclusions I've drawn.


09;44;12;28 - 09;43;49;27

Jonathan

That is so fair and so powerful, and there's oh my goodness, that saw two things that came to mind was one, a slight adjustment to my answer it's yes, no, yes, yes, because it's it starts with yourself and then grows over time to societal issues, then no, because you're specific, outpouring of your life is going to be


09;43;49;17 - 09;43;33;05

Jonathan

in an aspect of something that is powerful to you. But then, yes, because the higher your ideal is, the more unified ideals become. It's kind of like there's this idea in education that the higher the more in depth and the higher you go studying something, the more everything's connected, right?


09;43;33;05 - 09;43;15;28

Jonathan

Like high, high level mathematics is philosophy like is is literature. It's all these things. So it's like, I think that once you're once you're ideal, once you're able capable of raising your ideal high enough, they begin to interconnect.


09;43;15;28 - 09;43;05;10

Jonathan

And that's where that third, yes, comes in. And that's where I think that your ID like your life's purpose to not allow dignity to be desegregated is.


09;43;04;26 - 09;43;03;14

Sandy

So the point where it could lead to death.


09;43;03;05 - 09;42;41;18

Jonathan

To the point where can lead to death. It has an immense kinship with mine of perpetuating, safeguarding, furthering freedom. You cannot divorce those two ideas because you just can't divorce them. And then the thought that came to my mind for years, specifically the dignity piece, especially around race and differences in different groups of people.


09;42;40;22 - 09;42;13;25

Jonathan

This goes back to my comment on I hate that the counterfeit activism. Right, not the conviction based action. Cheapens the work that's clouding the waters, and that's where it's like, hey, remember that just because a bunch of. People who are not thinking through their actions are screaming about something does not give any give us the right to


09;42;13;25 - 09;41;52;01

Jonathan

ignore the fact that at the core of all the noise is a genuine problem set that needs genuine attention. And we and frankly, part of the fight in my mind now part of the struggle is salvaging, rescuing and protecting the heart of the issue and genuine work forward from these people who are.


09;41;50;24 - 09;41;49;09

Jonathan

Defecating on it, you know?


09;41;48;03 - 09;41;27;19

Sandy

Yeah. And you're always going to have people who will come into sort of the battle from this uninformed advocacy and activism. But I don't think that should become the representation of the particular struggle in the fight. You know, and I think we're intelligent enough to be able to wade through that, and I think sometimes we default to


09;41;27;13 - 09;41;13;18

Sandy

I'll dismiss this issue because look at look at all of this sort of uninformed argument. Well, that's sloppy and lazy. You know, I think again, I think we can I think we can cut to the heart of it and say, Wait a minute, there's some genuine issues here that need to be addressed.


09;41;13;17 - 09;40;59;12

Sandy

And yeah, maybe some people are approaching it in a way that's not really the most effective. But that's not a reason to then say, Well, I can turn away from that. It's not worth it.


09;40;58;17 - 09;40;43;25

Jonathan

And I think that gives us the opportunity to tie this all together. But because you're right, it's sloppy to just write it. It's like in anything, if you just look, if you just see the noise in the the garbage and the issue of what these people are doing and you write it off, that's sloppy.


09;40;43;25 - 09;40;30;28

Jonathan

It's lazy. Evaluate for yourself. And that comes back to the entire premise because I love the idea of how can we take something and make it actionable for ourselves and anyone listening so that they can actually begin to change their lives, right?


09;40;30;27 - 09;40;08;01

Jonathan

We want to inspire and provoke action. And that's start questioning. Start thinking for yourself. Exactly right. Yeah. And if you do that with how your own life is playing out and with the things that you're having emotional and mental, like thought provoking responses to start thinking through it, don't just let it go.


09;40;08;01 - 09;39;53;11

Jonathan

Really evaluate it, write it down, address it, push into it until you come to a conclusion, and then allow yourself the opportunity to refine that over time. But my mind, that's a great way to start that journey, to find what is worth fighting for and what we can all fight for.


09;39;52;28 - 09;39;34;09

Sandy

Absolutely. Yeah. And I would say also, I think just another reframing a lot of times it's sort of like this fight or that fight. I think people are calls in different fights, and you're right. I think we're going to see intersections in rather than saying, Hey, that person's focusing on the wrong thing.


09;39;34;09 - 09;39;13;27

Sandy

That person is just like, how do we think of this more as like a coalition? Enter into the fight that you're called to don't berate or sort of belittle that someone else is fighting a different fight. Think about how these things are interconnected and really see the strength of coalition building as opposed to factions in sort of


09;39;13;27 - 09;38;54;22

Sandy

segmenting which fight is better or more worthy. We don't need to put everything on the hierarchy. We don't need to, you know, do this sort of competition between what it is that we're all working towards. But be grateful that someone's fighting for the things that you're not fighting for 100.


09;38;54;08 - 09;38;33;24

Jonathan

100%. I just can't help but think of the old proverb. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. If we can remember the strength of being united, of standing united, we can build a future that is unfathomable in its beauty and in the level of freedom and dignity and respect


09;38;33;24 - 09;38;28;16

Jonathan

that we can allow for one another and the quality of life we can create. It's an inspiring picture.


09;38;28;08 - 09;38;09;21

Sandy

Yeah. And I think and I think to that point of unity, I don't think unity always means, you know, this sense of agreement, but at least not chipping away at or tearing apart. Right? So it's like I'm going to allow people to to fight for the things that they want to fight for.


09;38;09;10 - 09;37;54;00

Sandy

I don't I don't need to undermine that. We may not all come to the same agreements. We may all come to the same point where we want to focus our energies. But we can support the fact that they're fighting for something that they're finding worthy.


09;37;53;26 - 09;37;50;15

Sandy

And again, just be grateful that they are committed.


09;37;49;25 - 09;37;35;22

Jonathan

Yeah, that's a really good correction, because you're right. I wasn't thinking about some of the connotations the word unity has. But really, what we're talking about is an alliance, a coalition in the pursuit of better. And it all starts with evaluating yourself and going from there.


 



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