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30. Resilient Hope _ The Heinigers _ Part 2

Updated: Nov 11, 2021



 

Today we sat down with the indomitable Pete and Shara Heiniger who founded the non profit called Stages. In addition to the nonprofit, they also started a podcast by the same name with the goal to change the stigma and story of the cancer journey. They work to accomplish this goal by focusing on honesty, candor, and hope through building resiliency.


Highlights include:

-Stage 4 Cancer.

-The importance of listening when going through hell.

-The elephant in the room.

-Your family is on the journey whether they like it or not.

-The medicine of normalcy.

-The power of routines.

To learn more about the Heinigers and their work, check them out at:

www.stages.community


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Join The Grit Theory Community Here!

 

09;21;27;09 - 09;21;14;02

Aaron

It is important that eventually we do get to the point where I wouldn't say comforts by the wrong word, but strong enough to face it again. Mm-Hmm. That's part of the journey. It's like, if it's not today, it's going to happen eventually.


09;21;14;02 - 09;21;01;15

Aaron

I mean, death and loss is part of life. It's more it's more frequent as we get older, but it's something if we train ourselves, when we go through it, we'll be ready or at least a little bit more so.


09;21;01;14 - 09;21;00;17

Aaron

Yes, it comes.


09;21;00;17 - 09;21;00;03

Jon

Around, right?


09;21;00;02 - 09;20;38;24

Pete

Yeah, yeah. And and I think sometimes we just have to be so mindful and careful with what we what we say. We had close friends who had a son, a young boy who was suffering with cancer. And as I kind of unpacked, you know, as he's walking this journey with me, his name is Billy, Billy and I


09;20;38;24 - 09;20;27;09

Pete

go back and forth. And I just asked him, I said, When you know, the second year when everybody's walking in and saying, Hey, praying, praying for your son and praying, you know, praying for healing, you know, doing that.


09;20;26;24 - 09;20;13;14

Pete

I said, What did that do to you? And he goes, Well, it just taught me that there was one, obviously one entity in the entire Earth who could deal with this. And he wasn't. And so it made me angry at him.


09;20;12;28 - 09;20;01;02

Pete

And so it which is the exact opposite, I'm sure, of what his his friends and his community wanted him to think. But it was what the emphasis was. Well, the only thing we can we have in our toolbox is to pray for this healing.


09;20;01;02 - 09;19;45;13

Pete

And so it's not coming in and out. It's him. It's his son. So like, he's even more emotional, sure. And and hates. He'd rather it would be him going through that than a son. So that's that really opened my eyes to, I think, because I could feel that to a certain degree.


09;19;45;01 - 09;19;32;27

Pete

But then I he was admitting to me that as he started seeing things on Facebook in comments that people were making, he was reliving those moments as people said the same comments to me as they were saying, they said to him.


09;19;32;01 - 09;19;15;24

Pete

Anyway, they test. I'm so mad, you know, and I was like, It's OK, you know, it's like because you and I get it right, like, we can walk through this and we can discuss this. And maybe there will be some healing for you in this because we now both can go through it a second time and kind


09;19;15;24 - 09;19;10;24

Pete

of process that. And you have somebody that understands and can process it with you you didn't have before.


09;19;10;16 - 09;18;55;08

Aaron

Rather than combating the anger, it's almost like I am, so I can't even think straight and I do understand why this happened. And you're just like, Yeah, yeah, I know, I hear, I hear you. I mean, yeah, I mean, you're not like pushing back, like, it's OK.


09;18;55;07 - 09;18;52;18

Aaron

You'll be fine. You should get back to happy. Like, although.


09;18;52;10 - 09;18;52;00

Jon

Yeah.


09;18;51;22 - 09;18;51;04

Aaron

This is real.


09;18;50;29 - 09;18;36;06

Pete

Yeah, I mean, whether you're a person of faith or not. I think whoever you shout out to in the middle of the day or night. I think there's this idea of what do you want? You know, for me and I think you get to that point.


09;18;36;04 - 09;18;15;04

Pete

You know, when you are on any journey, whether it's, you know, a work journey, something that you have to dig in and be gritty about. And I think in the midst of those that that tough battle you, you're really kind of faced with this, this this challenge, the like.


09;18;14;16 - 09;18;00;11

Pete

There's got to be something that is wrong with me or there's something that why is this continuing to happen? I know like 11 time I have, I'm in infusion, I'm going in. I was supposed to get the pump office.


09;18;00;11 - 09;17;50;22

Pete

Just be a good day. No more chemicals going through my body. I know I can recover for a week and they're like, Oh, you have an irregularity in your heartbeat. So we're going to have to kick you over to emergency.


09;17;50;01 - 09;17;36;17

Pete

So I have to call her at work and go, Hey, I'm gonna need you to get a ride over here because you're going to have to drive me home because they're definitely not going to let me drive. And so we go through all that six hours of sitting in there and watch it and everything.


09;17;36;17 - 09;17;30;07

Pete

So it's like middle of the night we walk out and our cars battery is dead and we can't even get in it.


09;17;30;03 - 09;17;26;10

Jon

Really, where to say are you? Who do we know, who do we know.


09;17;26;10 - 09;17;17;15

Pete

That we can wake up and be lives fairly close to the hospital? You know, and you're just like. But that's when you kind of get in that moment of calm.


09;17;17;11 - 09;17;15;07

Jon

What do you want? Yeah, what? What is it that.


09;17;15;07 - 09;17;13;25

Pete

You're trying to get from me because.


09;17;13;25 - 09;17;11;05

Jon

I just tell me what I need to like.


09;17;11;02 - 09;16;55;28

Pete

Do, and I'll do it so that we can check that off the list and I don't have to keep do it, you know? But you know, that's not how it works. But I mean, it really does get to those points where you're just like, what's next when you're just waiting for the next boot to drop, right?


09;16;55;25 - 09;16;54;17

Pete

And I think that's hard.


09;16;53;28 - 09;16;36;21

Jon

Which makes it even harder is that we look for patterns, right? I think we look for patterns. It's like, OK, Don's coming. But that's not always the case with circumstances like Don may not be coming. For some reason, the analogy that jumped to my head is I don't get angry at fire for burning, right?


09;16;36;21 - 09;16;23;16

Jon

If I see a flame burning something, even if it's something precious to me, I don't get angry at the fire. You know, I understand that doing what it does, and that's kind of life. It's like, you know what is required of me, everything until I die.


09;16;23;15 - 09;16;12;27

Jon

Everything is required of me. If I want to live here and turn something. So no matter how bad it is, life is kind of like this fire that will burn everything it can. And there's no reprieve in sight until it comes.


09;16;12;27 - 09;15;54;02

Jon

And it's not because any choice has been made. It's just because the same roll of the dice circumstantially is now back in your favor or back to your grief where it was just torturing you and. I don't know for myself, walking through some of the things that I've done, I found more relief in that knowing that it's


09;15;54;02 - 09;15;40;19

Jon

not some dictated thing. Basically, it's like, OK, there's no guarantee that I just stepped on this that really sucked. The last four days have really sucked. Maybe, yeah, tomorrow be better. Like knowing Matt. That's not guaranteed. Tomorrow could be worse than today.


09;15;40;08 - 09;15;23;14

Jon

Let's let's do whatever can or hit it broken or hide or whatever may be needed in whatever state of despair there might be has been a relief to me because it's almost like I'm. Choosing the opposite creates a greater let down.


09;15;23;05 - 09;15;17;22

Jon

If the reprieve doesn't come right? Opposed, yes. All right. Time to go. Get through the storm, right?


09;15;17;14 - 09;15;16;24

Pete

Yep, yeah.


09;15;16;14 - 09;14;56;07

Shara

Yep. And then sometimes, you know, we've talked about friends have fallen off and given us the platitudes, but our journey is sort of just extending them, you know, sort of seeing where they are in their life and sort of just extending them grace that, you know, it's fine that they're they're not in that spot where they can


09;14;55;20 - 09;14;50;23

Shara

do that, taking care of us. But also they're trying their best.


09;14;50;12 - 09;14;29;02

Pete

Mm hmm. And there's a side of it, though, that I want to be honest with the listeners. I got I was mad. Like, I got pissed, I was really pissed when I saw the the people that I invested in that I mentor, that I that I, you know, took interest in them and help them and poured life


09;14;29;02 - 09;14;17;13

Pete

into them for sometimes for a matter of years. And then it's all of a sudden this happens, and I didn't even expect them to come along on the journey with cancer. That was not an expectation I had for anybody.


09;14;17;01 - 09;14;06;28

Pete

It was kind of like if you if you want to, that will be awesome. Yeah, but there was no like, Hey, I'm just going to draw anyway. If you're a friend of mine, I'm going to draw you into this big cancer thing.


09;14;06;17 - 09;13;52;17

Pete

It was just, I want the same relationship with you that I had before. I mean, why did it need to change? What? What about my diagnosis change? And so when it did change it, I have to be honest with you as much as I wanted to give them grace, I think that came later.


09;13;52;02 - 09;13;49;06

Jon

I was I was like, so bad.


09;13;49;06 - 09;13;39;14

Pete

And there's sometimes where even right now, I'm struggling with a few people like, do I just communicate to them like, Hey, let's grab coffee and be like, Hey, why did you fall off the face.


09;13;39;01 - 09;13;38;19

Jon

You know?


09;13;38;19 - 09;13;33;02

Pete

Or is that too in their in their face? So I haven't, I haven't. I don't even have an answer for that. Like I.


09;13;31;29 - 09;13;20;00

Jon

I love that so much because they're such an important distinction. And it's kind of the third route we didn't talk about earlier. So yes, tragedy strikes. You can jump on and fight with me. That would be awesome, right?


09;13;20;00 - 09;13;07;22

Jon

Like you said, like, thank you, I will take it. But also, that's an expectation. So why can't things just continue as normal? It's like panic and flee or jump into the fight or like the binary code everyone sees.


09;13;07;21 - 09;12;55;13

Jon

It's like I either have to jump in or I'm like out, and you're like, No, no, no, like, can we just stay the course as it was? And I'm of the mind. My bent would be absolutely to sit down.


09;12;55;07 - 09;12;46;04

Jon

Why have you fallen off the face of the Earth? Is it because you don't know what to do? Because I can help you with that, but I just missed my friend. I don't need anything extra. And maybe it's like, you're not already, you're already not talking to him.


09;12;46;04 - 09;12;42;04

Jon

So if, if anything, insults them or offends them or you're not in a worse spot?


09;12;41;28 - 09;12;41;02

Jon

Right, exactly.


09;12;41;02 - 09;12;25;16

Jon

But you may get your friend back to who's just, you know, like you said, didn't know how to handle did the best. They could think that they're helping. Maybe, even, maybe not. And that can just be revealed. I just think that there's there's no shadow I've put light over.


09;12;25;09 - 09;12;11;18

Jon

I've not regretted putting it over. Even if it's ugly and hurts. I'd rather know and see it because it's the ambiguous and unknown that really terrify me and keep me up at night. But once I face them and put them in the light, it's even if it's able to eat me.


09;12;11;18 - 09;11;52;07

Jon

It's not as bad as my imagination made it. And you know what, really, we were talking about on potency is lost over repetition. And I think that even ties into relationships of like, I will assume, the worst of someone I love if I haven't had the conversation to figure out what's actually going on.


09;11;51;28 - 09;11;51;02

Jon

Yes. Yeah.


09;11;51;01 - 09;11;50;20

Pete

Oh yeah.


09;11;50;12 - 09;11;39;21

Jon

But then it's things. The more of those conversations that happen, the less of a. Monumental task, they appear right. And that's the potency piece.


09;11;39;21 - 09;11;39;14

Jon

Where.


09;11;39;02 - 09;11;27;02

Aaron

We build it up bigger than it really is, and I think, you know, the like you're saying like, I just need you to be normal around me, you know? And I think I have to be a master counselor in order to engage.


09;11;27;02 - 09;11;25;20

Aaron

So I'm just not going to engage them.


09;11;25;19 - 09;11;24;27

Jon

Right, exactly.


09;11;24;26 - 09;11;15;22

Aaron

It's not like, that's not what you were before, nor if you were. Is that necessarily what I need right now? Like, just hold a pole next to me. Did.


09;11;15;15 - 09;11;15;08

Jon

Well.


09;11;14;27 - 09;11;00;02

Jon

It's it's like a reeducation thing, right? Yeah, it's educating the people, walk through it and the people who are going through it. Right. So like, whether it's the friend or the actual the person with the problem, it's they both need educated like you said, Hey, you're not going to listen to these things up front, but listen to


09;11;00;02 - 09;10;44;17

Jon

them because you may cause yourself permanent nerve damage, right? We don't want to pay attention to it's different like that. And that's why I understand stages to be it. So it's a total education program for both those who are going through the conflict and both those who are around it to have a healthier response.


09;10;44;17 - 09;10;43;15

Jon

It's actually beneficial.


09;10;43;07 - 09;10;42;12

Shara

Yes, exactly.


09;10;42;11 - 09;10;39;06

Jon

What's fun is you can send this episode to the friends you want to have coffee with.


09;10;38;29 - 09;10;38;22

Jon

Yeah.


09;10;38;16 - 09;10;33;04

Jon

And say, Hey, like, I wanna have coffee with you. Listen to this here a little bit more because I'm bringing this to the conversation.


09;10;33;00 - 09;10;29;14

Jon

Exactly. The baggage? Yeah. Yeah.


09;10;29;13 - 09;10;28;02

Jon

Here's my question. This will prepare.


09;10;28;02 - 09;10;26;27

Jon

You think? Think about.


09;10;26;27 - 09;10;26;23

Jon

It.


09;10;26;22 - 09;10;25;22

Jon

Be ready. Yeah.


09;10;25;00 - 09;10;22;12

Jon

I'll put you in the corner booth so you can't get out of the conversation and then we'll.


09;10;22;12 - 09;10;21;17

Jon

Go on with their lives.


09;10;20;04 - 09;10;04;09

Aaron

I see this in and that is not just cancer, but people who have gone through divorce or some other kind of loss. It's amazing if people just check out and I'm sick of assuming that that person, like they don't have enough to give to them.


09;10;04;09 - 09;09;53;03

Aaron

And it's like to John's point, it's like everyone just needs a friend, no matter what you're going through. Like, just be a friend. Don't feel weird about it. Like, be the person you always have been, you know, use tact.


09;09;52;22 - 09;09;34;28

Aaron

You know, I tell John, this is my go to and I have to resist it. Whenever there's something, something off is I want to be humorous, which is my superpower at the correct time. Maybe not right after the news, you know, naturally, we have some fun with this.


09;09;34;28 - 09;09;21;25

Aaron

But but but being yourself? Because you sensing that you say platitudes like you're being fake with me right now, like, I don't need fake, right? OK, I actually need real, authentic right now so I can walk through this correctly.


09;09;21;21 - 09;09;20;11

Jon

Yeah, yeah, yeah.


09;09;20;11 - 09;09;06;12

Pete

And I and I think too, when you have, you know, you can distance yourself and have those healthy moments. I think you also come to grips with is the fact of like maybe just in general, whether you have cancer or not.


09;09;05;20 - 09;09;01;19

Pete

How often do you actually just tell somebody how much you value their friendship?


09;09;01;11 - 09;09;01;00

Jon

Mm hmm.


09;09;00;24 - 09;08;46;20

Pete

Right. Because that's really what you're trying to say to them, right, is that when you fell off, it destroyed me, which means I really valued what we had. But maybe when my healthy moments, when I think about this part of that is because I never really said that.


09;08;46;20 - 09;08;29;03

Pete

I just assumed because we were getting together and having a great time that it was just assumed like that. You knew that this was. But maybe it, it wasn't. Maybe you don't know how much you mean, because I think we all kind of discount how much we mean to other people sometimes like, Oh, it's not that he


09;08;29;03 - 09;08;25;23

Pete

probably has tons of friends, you know, or or whatnot.


09;08;25;16 - 09;08;24;13

Jon

Is Pete's posse or.


09;08;24;12 - 09;08;14;01

Pete

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And look at all these people. And so, you know, he doesn't need he doesn't need us. And I think that's that's something that that for me, I had to come to grips with is like, well, p.


09;08;13;24 - 09;08;10;06

Pete

I mean, how often did you actually tell them how much he did value what you had with them?


09;08;09;27 - 09;07;57;10

Jon

And do they even know you're hurting from the loss, right? What I love about what you're talking about is you're doing that mirror gazing right? You're looking in yourself. The introspective journey, which is typically painful because you can't blame things when you're like, I'm what can I own in this?


09;07;56;22 - 09;07;45;03

Jon

That's even more aggravating because you're acting, you know, like if what if you talk to every person you feel this loss with and most of them think they've been doing what you want, right? So it's been on you this whole time.


09;07;44;17 - 09;07;44;08

Jon

Right?


09;07;44;01 - 09;07;39;21

Jon

It's also on them because they could ask. But that's that's less helpful with the mindset of I'm going to own it, right?


09;07;39;20 - 09;07;38;27

Jon

Right, exactly.


09;07;38;27 - 09;07;27;28

Jon

So it's like, well, if I own and I ask and I find out that my friend's been here the whole time morning, also not knowing what to do and they thought they were helping me. It's like, Well, we just resolved that let's let's jump back in.


09;07;27;23 - 09;07;27;13

Jon

Right?


09;07;26;07 - 09;07;08;26

Aaron

You're doing. I see in you that you've only gotten stronger through this journey. You have gotten stronger through this. And I say that here's the evidence of it, because it is a monumental task to be able to face the fact that I have cancer and say those words.


09;07;08;26 - 09;06;57;20

Aaron

I have cancer and I'm fighting cancer, right? But now you're going several levels higher and you're going, Hey, I wonder how I should talk to my friends through this that are seeing that I have cancer? It's the opposite.


09;06;57;20 - 09;06;44;02

Aaron

A victim mindset, like you could say they should. I'm the one dealing with this. But because you've been lifting this heavy weight, in many ways, you're almost stronger than the people around you in this particular area. It's like, this is what happens.


09;06;43;18 - 09;06;32;11

Aaron

When you do this in a healthy way, you start even getting more as like, OK, I'm lifting that weight and not not that it's easy. But then I can also look to other things I'm like, I wonder if I could really challenge my relationships right now.


09;06;32;10 - 09;06;27;02

Aaron

I wonder if I could challenge this. And it's a perpetual thing, because this a similar rule. Similar muscles.


09;06;27;01 - 09;06;17;11

Jon

Yeah, yeah. Real quick. I think what you're hitting on, yeah, the strength that's visible is it's the trained response versus the natural response. Yeah, right. You guys are conditioned for chaos.


09;06;17;09 - 09;06;16;10

Aaron

You are. You are.


09;06;15;25 - 09;05;58;25

Jon

So we're the strength that you've built, right? Because the natural response is you've talked to are fair, but with the conditioned responses over time, now you have a strength that's giving you the ability to sit here and think, maybe when you sit down with these guys and see where they're at right now, that's evolved.


09;05;58;17 - 09;05;58;08

Jon

Yeah.


09;05;57;29 - 09;05;40;10

Shara

I remember too early on in our marriage and ministry, our working, we had a guy who had he had a little he was a big guy like Pete, and he had a lot of little kids always running around and jumped on his lap.


09;05;40;10 - 09;05;25;29

Shara

And he had kids some on the cheek and then they'd run off. And one time this guy and he hugged goodbye. And the guy, just like just out of response, you know, because of doing that so often with these kids.


09;05;25;20 - 09;05;13;29

Shara

The guy kissed him on the cheek and he was like, Oh my goodness, what just happened? And he was like, Oh, that was so accurate. But that is something you know that I do see him do a lot now.


09;05;13;29 - 09;04;57;29

Shara

That's fun to watch. Just tell one of those, I guess I wanna like, walk across the parking lot and give a big, big, big hug and say, you know, and then when when you leave people, you always say, I love you.


09;04;57;28 - 09;04;54;25

Shara

You know, to guys, which is one of those things that you.


09;04;53;26 - 09;04;53;07

Jon

Growth. Yeah.


09;04;52;27 - 09;04;39;01

Jon

You have. I love what you said about they don't they don't take for granted peace. Right? It is fun because we've had a number of conversations. This the last seven days that have had some themes, right? And I was talking with a buddy.


09;04;38;14 - 09;04;28;02

Jon

He hasn't seen his family for a while this, but he hasn't seen his family for a while, and they're having this reunion around a happy event and stuff. And there's been some strife because it's a stressful, happy event.


09;04;27;20 - 09;04;12;00

Jon

And he he's been reflecting on what the heck's going on. And he realized that when you take for granted expectations on a relationship like, Oh, because we're family will always be here because we're brothers, we'll always have a relationship that is actually not true.


09;04;11;14 - 09;03;56;00

Jon

And he's like the realization the fruit of it was I need to be more intentional. I need to invest more energy and show more respect, and I need to pursue the unity I want in the family, as if it could be lost in an instant because it can't be very true.


09;03;55;24 - 09;03;40;17

Jon

And that's kind of what I I just see the direct correlation to what you're saying here. It's like, do they actually know family friend or whoever the value that they hold in my life? It's good because it's it's up to me to speak that right.


09;03;40;15 - 09;03;30;11

Jon

I had to. I even have a coworker who got emotional because he failed to express that to his father and his father passed. And it's like, God, express it.


09;03;30;07 - 09;03;05;17

Pete

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And and you just never know how. The perspective of that of that person and how they're translating the things that you guys are going through life in general, different things that happen between you and your families and just their life, you know, separate from yours because they're processing it through a lens that you don't


09;03;05;17 - 09;02;48;11

Pete

possess. You know, and I think I learned that the most through my brother, Paul. He moved to Germany when I was in, when I was in junior high. And so he's lived there ever since, right? And so he's he's now lived in Germany longer than he ever lived in the United States, right?


09;02;48;10 - 09;02;44;22

Pete

He has a broken English when I talk to him.


09;02;44;18 - 09;02;44;00

Shara

It's really good.


09;02;43;28 - 09;02;32;12

Pete

Yes, it's better. Yeah, exactly German. But I it's like he can't. He sounds like he can't speak English. And so I give him a lot of grief. But I think in that relationship, because you only touch points every so often.


09;02;31;27 - 09;02;15;13

Pete

I forget what lens he looks at our relationship through. Like, for me, that's my big brother. I have all these fond memories of when I was a kid and looking up and he was the strong guy. He was 14 years older than I am, so I got to see him kind of at his peak in high school


09;02;15;13 - 09;02;04;02

Pete

and all this stuff and then go into the army and do all these things. And so when I watch that, I have this image of him, but I never said those things to him. I never were like, You know, like, you're my hero, you know, or anything like that.


09;02;03;17 - 09;01;44;01

Pete

Well, he just sees these other touch points. And so I think he he's discounts how much he means to me, right? And I think again, it's because of the lens. I I don't have to be present with my brother to have this hero image of him just recalled up in my mind, right?


09;01;43;15 - 09;01;27;11

Pete

But for him, he I was just this little five year old punk, you know, like the the, you know, he didn't get to experience the rest of those years with me because he was in Germany. And so we did and we weren't tight and there wasn't email back then.


09;01;27;11 - 09;01;14;00

Pete

So it wasn't like we we kept in touch or Zoom, call each other or something like that. So I think that taught me an important thing with him because I think there's been times where he just goes. I know we haven't always gotten along and I was like, What is he talking about?


09;01;14;00 - 09;01;01;23

Pete

Like, I've always gotten along with him. And then I was realizing that, you know, there have been a few times through the years where we've disagreed on something, right? But that through his lens, we've never, always gotten along.


09;01;01;23 - 09;00;47;17

Pete

And I'm like, those are just 25 minute conversations like me. And I think those are the things that we don't realize is a, you know, not only are we living different worlds, a different journey, even though we're friends, but they're seeing things through a completely different lens.


09;00;47;17 - 09;00;34;03

Pete

So I could look at the same experience that they're going through and just kind of like, you know, like, that's not a big deal. And to them, it was like a huge a huge deal or something that you said was a big deal to them, either in a good way or a bad way.


09;00;33;19 - 09;00;32;03

Pete

And you just didn't take it that way.


09;00;31;27 - 09;00;29;08

Jon

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I want.


09;00;29;08 - 09;00;13;07

Jon

To bounce an idea and it's a it's a poor, poorly formed one. So I'm sorry if it doesn't come out well, but I want a litmus test if you guys don't mind. So I've been walking through a chaotic event after chaotic event and tragedy with one of my friends for a couple of years now.


09;00;13;07 - 09;00;12;25

Jon

It's just been.


09;00;12;25 - 09;00;11;19

Jon

Rough, you know? Yeah.


09;00;11;14 - 10;59;54;22

Jon

Trust me, the cycle's just not letting up. It's like this cat-And-Mouse. This and in. He's a warrior, so it's not like he's bringing this armed himself through inaction or anything. Just it sucks. And there's been times where I also just battling alongside him, right?


10;59;54;22 - 10;59;42;09

Jon

I'm not in the circumstances. I'm just continuously going through it to the best of my ability with him. Get fatigue and I've what I'm realizing I've not done well is I'll try and go and recharge and then come back right in, right.


10;59;42;09 - 10;59;24;25

Jon

So there's not an absence, but I'm trying to handle my fatigue without him knowing. Right? Yes, because it's fatigue from his problems that I'm trying to help with. And what I've realized with what we're talking about is, man, I think would be so much beneficial instead of the moments where I get frustrated with him just being OK


10;59;24;25 - 10;59;13;01

Jon

, dude. Like, I'm just fatigued fighting the fight with you right now, and I'm ticked off about these things and I'm not ticked off you. But like, I'm also infuriated by this and I'm hitting a fatigued point fighting alongside you.


10;59;12;18 - 10;58;59;22

Jon

So I just want to be clear. Yeah, I'm ticked. I'm pissed, but it's not at you. It's at these freakin situations that we can't get a hold of. It's in. The thought is, I feel like that'd be more beneficial for him because that's why he's mad.


10;58;59;15 - 10;58;56;12

Jon

He's mad because he's fatigued also, and he thinks this is B.S., right?


10;58;56;06 - 10;58;55;13

Jon

Yeah, sure.


10;58;55;02 - 10;58;54;14

Jon

Is that good?


10;58;53;25 - 10;58;38;19

Shara

Yes. I think there's very there's a level of health in that that not many people do. You know, like we were just for one of our podcasts, we were talking about how I say something and he hears it differently than what I mean.


10;58;38;15 - 10;58;18;10

Shara

Hmm. And it was along that line of my doing self-care, taking care of myself, just having a moment like away from the situation and. He he interpreted that as me not wanting to be in the fight with him, and I'm like, I just need a break.


10;58;17;26 - 10;58;17;18

Jon

Right?


10;58;17;12 - 10;58;13;10

Shara

Could I just go paint with the friend? And we're not talking about cancer today?


10;58;13;07 - 10;58;12;02

Jon

You know, even even.


10;58;12;02 - 10;58;10;15

Aaron

Nurses have to hit the pillow every now.


10;58;10;15 - 10;58;09;19

Jon

And then. All right.


10;58;09;06 - 10;58;07;27

Aaron

Or hey, you be careful with that.


10;58;07;18 - 10;58;05;27

Jon

Can I go to the mountain with the extreme with you.


10;58;05;17 - 10;58;03;14

Jon

Because I need to scream to? Yes.


10;58;03;09 - 10;58;01;25

Jon

So I have some cleanup to do.


10;58;01;14 - 10;58;00;26

Jon

But I'm glad to.


10;58;00;26 - 10;57;58;11

Jon

Have the visibility right. I'm really grateful.


10;57;58;00 - 10;57;47;11

Pete

And and I think I think to answer your question, I think honesty and having that is actually because it helps us. I mean, because it shows that you're in the fight.


10;57;47;04 - 10;57;46;25

Jon

Mm-Hmm.


10;57;46;21 - 10;57;43;12

Pete

Like, if you weren't fatigued, I mean, how invested are you? Yeah.


10;57;43;09 - 10;57;43;02

Jon

Like.


10;57;42;22 - 10;57;35;01

Pete

That's if there's been this cycle and you're just like, Oh, come on, and you just power through it. Let's just. And you didn't really ever get in.


10;57;34;11 - 10;57;34;09

Jon

To.


10;57;34;02 - 10;57;14;17

Pete

The most affected with it. And then how much is there? And it also goes like it would give me strength to know like, Yeah, this is crap. This is difficult. This is even fatiguing, my friend. And I think that helps me do a few things that helps me balance again, like the importance of balance of saying, like


10;57;14;05 - 10;56;55;28

Pete

, Hey, I know, like, I had a friend who signed up to say, like, Hey, you can talk to me about anything, anytime, anywhere. But that also means, like, I have to also be trusted with the idea of like, yeah, but there's still the right times to do that, and there's a place to do that in which I


10;56;55;28 - 10;56;43;03

Pete

can. I can actually be a friend to them in the midst of them being a friend to me. Like, I don't have to have that conversation today with that person. Yeah, and that's why I think trying to get more.


10;56;41;10 - 10;56;36;24

Pete

I try to get people to get more people into the fight, spread out.


10;56;36;24 - 10;56;36;07

Jon

Spread it out.


10;56;35;24 - 10;56;35;12

Jon

So you.


10;56;35;12 - 10;56;33;26

Pete

Can make tag tag tag.


10;56;33;26 - 10;56;31;28

Jon

Team, you know, or you.


10;56;31;28 - 10;56;24;27

Pete

Know, it's just like, you know, because some some day some guy is going to have it. Another day, another is going to have the energy. That's it. And it's just like.


10;56;24;11 - 10;56;24;02

Jon

You know.


10;56;23;27 - 10;56;11;19

Pete

Maybe I'm, you know, having that conversation feeling fatigued. I was wondering if we pull a few more people into these deeper discussions. Yeah, and things like that. There's going to it'll be better for all of us.


10;56;11;04 - 10;55;52;26

Shara

Well, there's two good aspects to that relationship where like I would say I needed, I'm just going to have an art with a friend. He in the past would just say, Oh, OK, Bye-Bye. And then just stew and think about how I didn't want to be in the fight with him.