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37. "Inch By Inch" _ Craig Kaiser Part 2



 

CONTINUED:

09;18;39;23 - 09;18;29;10

Craig

Because then you're living in an autonomous, you know, country where it's North Korea and you have no freedoms and you don't even know what happiness is because your definition of happiness is being passed down to you. Correct. Right.


09;18;28;17 - 09;18;12;14

Craig

In America, every day is a risk right because you have a risk to either get worse, get further away from your dreams and your goals. Mm-Hmm. Or you have the ability to get closer to that. Every single person who lives in this amazing country has that ability.


09;18;11;28 - 09;17;53;26

Craig

Now are some of those decisions and some of those paths easier for other people? Absolutely, it is. I'll trying to make that that point or that case at all. Absolutely. It's easier for some people. But if any point through my my, you know, path, I've said, well, I'm not going to take that risk because that person didn't


09;17;53;26 - 09;17;40;21

Craig

have to take it, that person didn't have to work as hard as me. That person didn't have to do that. If I'm just focused on what they're doing, I've lost that inch. Somebody else has gotten it because I know there's somebody else out there not making an excuse, not saying that if I would have done this, or


09;17;40;21 - 09;17;28;27

Craig

if I would have been this, or if I could have came from this family or this last name, or if I could have had this investor pick up the phone. All right, this goes to like business. If I could have just had an investor like them who would pick up the phone and get me that placement too


09;17;28;27 - 09;17;19;16

Craig

, or give me that order. It's not about me anymore, I'm just making excuses for myself because I don't want to go and take the risk and keep going to where I know I think I can.


09;17;19;16 - 09;17;03;15

Jon

When there's this fun little poem, it's all the photos would and could haves. All of them ran from one tiny little did you know it's like when you accept it and you just do it right, you just take the action, you embrace the risk and you don't look for an hour.


09;17;03;14 - 09;16;42;13

Jon

You don't look for another reason. It's empowering. It's it's the intoxicating gift of of this country, right? Absolutely. The gift to be able to do that stuff. And coming back to your sitting there with Liz having conversation, you're just getting settled into a job, not as in settling with your life, but you're just getting used to this


09;16;42;13 - 09;16;30;14

Jon

job. You're doing it for a little while and then you decide, do we want to settle or do we want do something different? And you guys obviously don't work for them anymore? Yeah. So you chose not to stay there.


09;16;30;13 - 09;16;29;26

Jon

And what.


09;16;29;12 - 09;16;29;06

Craig

Will.


09;16;28;15 - 09;16;27;26

Jon

Happened from there?


09;16;27;25 - 09;16;14;01

Craig

I was so I was so enthralled with that job. I loved that job. I mean, every every other Friday, we would get off. For the first year and a half, I didn't take that Friday off, I would show up every Friday that I had off because I loved the job.


09;16;14;01 - 09;16;00;12

Craig

I love the work I loved contributing. I think that that I mean, the work I was doing, it was working for an oil and gas company for pulling fossil fuels out of the ground, which at this point in the narrative in Western cultures, that's killing humanity.


09;15;59;27 - 09;15;47;04

Craig

I look at the complete opposite way look at what it's done for poverty across the world with energy. And because I've lived in places where they have no energy and it's awful, it's terrible. Human condition is just absolutely atrocious.


09;15;46;11 - 09;15;35;19

Craig

And I believe I'm passionate about that. My energies are really, really good thing to have. So I was passionate about that and I was coming in and I was very happy about it for the first year, year and a half.


09;15;35;01 - 09;15;24;07

Craig

And I had never worked in a big corporate job before and I thought everybody, but I had played on a lot of teams. I thought, Everybody is for Team Anadarko. We are going to drive this. Everything we do is going to benefit this company.


09;15;23;28 - 09;15;18;25

Craig

How much work we put in, the money we spend. All this stuff is going to benefit, which will benefit all of the employees.


09;15;18;24 - 09;15;18;13

Jon

Correct.


09;15;17;17 - 09;15;06;14

Craig

And I quickly learned that's not the way it is, right? And just naive. Just absolute. And there's some beauty to to, you know, being a little bit ignorant. Right? I guess I'll say that I am. I am ignorant, right?


09;15;06;13 - 09;14;53;04

Craig

I believe when someone tells me, Hey, you get up and you work hard every day. And you can achieve whatever you want. I 100% believe that, right? You've got to be a little bit ignorant to believe that because you see people that work hard and it doesn't work out that well.


09;14;52;14 - 09;14;39;17

Craig

But those people pray also make an excuse why they stopped doing it. Mm-Hmm. All right. So there's a little bit of ignorance there, but I quickly learned, you know, that this isn't going to work for me and my wife didn't like it either.


09;14;39;08 - 09;14;22;22

Craig

She didn't want to be part of it. And at the time, me and another business partner of mine, we came up with some ideas. I came out and I know based off of these geologic principles and what you know about engineering, there's a lot of hydrocarbons that we can recover out of this area.


09;14;22;12 - 09;14;10;24

Craig

Nobody cares about it. Nobody wants to do it. We've tried to push it with our company. They don't want anything to do with it because it's not coming from the right people. And we started, we started taking risk.


09;14;10;24 - 09;14;00;09

Craig

We on my on my days off, I'd take vacation. We started traveling the country and talking to every private equity group and venture capitalist group that would listen to us, which wasn't very many. Yeah, right. I mean, who?


09;14;00;03 - 09;13;52;24

Craig

Who the hell are you two guys, right? You don't have any executive experience. You don't you don't come from a big, rich, wealthy family like, who are you guys?


09;13;52;16 - 09;13;49;05

Jon

This is a well-established industry. Oh, it takes money to make money.


09;13;49;04 - 09;13;35;12

Craig

Oh, enormous amounts, right? Even to get a phone call with some of these people. I mean, it would take us months. So I mean, we finally got some meetings lined up and you know, I'd take a day off, fly to New York or Dallas or Houston or wherever we needed to go.


09;13;34;28 - 09;13;22;12

Craig

And long story short, you know, this is after this risk, right? There's no guarantee same school months. There's no guarantee any of the work time and effort I was putting into this stuff was going to pay off in any way.


09;13;22;00 - 09;13;08;11

Craig

We're spending money. I mean, I come home from work and I'm staying up till midnight or 1:00 and doing mapping and things like that, putting presentations together and no guarantee this is ever going to pay off. Yep, that's in my head.


09;13;08;10 - 09;12;53;03

Craig

It's likely not. But it was like, Keep trying. Like, who cares? Who cares if they say no, which a lot. Almost every group we talked to said no. And that's like getting punched in the face. Like, you know, you spend two or three months talking with an equity group and you give them all of your ideas and


09;12;53;03 - 09;12;39;00

Craig

you pour your heart and soul into them and they send you an email back like a one sentence email. Sorry, we're not interested. We're going to pass. Yeah, right? And then you find out two years later that they actually did sponsor a team for $3 million in the exact same area that you were trying to get under the


09;12;39;00 - 09;12;21;22

Craig

same exact geologic principle. So basically took your idea and sold it to someone else. That's life. That's how, you know, that's life. And it sucks. But you know, we kept going, and after a couple of years, we got a commitment from one of the biggest private equity groups in as far as energy goes in the world is


09;12;21;22 - 09;12;01;22

Craig

Warburg Pincus out of Manhattan. We were committed $750 million to buy Bonanza Creek Energy. At the time, Bonanza Creek Energy was going through bankruptcy. So the timing was perfect. Absolutely perfect. And, you know, as 28 year old guy and I was sitting in a in a in a training session and it was a big enough deal.


09;12;01;22 - 09;11;49;28

Craig

We knew that it was going to hit the news. Whoever got the bid. We knew it was us and one other group was it was in the process. You know, I'm driving a 96 Chevy pickup with the same pickup I drove in your house.


09;11;49;28 - 09;11;36;14

Craig

I was going to sell Typekit still driving that one. So driving that one, that's a pickup. I'm driving to work and I'm sitting there waiting for like a either a Bloomberg or a Yahoo Finance News article to pop up that day of whether we got the bid or not.


09;11;35;29 - 09;11;17;11

Craig

And my my partner texted me and he says, Well, it's in the news, so I refresh my screen and it wasn't us. We lost it, right? We lost the bid. So I stayed a year. I was no. I was not going to be an executive of a almost billion dollar company.


09;11;17;10 - 09;11;05;00

Craig

I was a geologist at the time. And I mean, I hurt that. Does that took that was a punch in the gut. And I got home that night. And, you know, I had been doing this for like almost two years at this point.


09;11;05;00 - 09;10;56;24

Craig

And my wife, you know, she would see me go off on a weekend and try to talk to a group. And we put a lot of time and effort into it. And I had to tell her like, we didn't.


09;10;56;02 - 09;10;41;27

Craig

We lost. We lost it. We didn't get it. And yeah, she said, OK. Right. And that was like an uplifting deals like, you don't care. You're not mad. It's like, no, like, why would I be mad? I mean, how many?


09;10;41;13 - 09;10;27;20

Craig

How many? How many people would have ever thought before you were going to call rescue money that you would have been in those rooms in those meetings and gotten that commitment? Hmm. So I'm still kind of shocked that we did that.


09;10;27;13 - 09;10;12;24

Craig

That actually happened. But yeah, so that didn't work. And I so then a few years later, myself and another business partner, we came up with another idea and we had done fairly well in a couple of other deals.


09;10;12;21 - 09;09;57;06

Craig

And it wasn't like real money because we was just on paper. It's not like, you know, 200 grand sitting in a duffle bag that's like, Hey, good job on this deal. Yeah. So it's like. Wasn't really real, anyway, so he's like, well, we've got some money off of this deal, we did pretty well.


09;09;55;23 - 09;09;41;25

Craig

Should we start a company and should we start spending this money immediately and like, you know what? Screw it, let's go. Let's, let's do it. Let's let's swing. Let's go to town. It's the business model that we're currently doing now.


09;09;41;25 - 09;09;28;01

Craig

It's it's very similar to Zillow. It's a huge business model idea, which is really, really hard to sell and get people to understand. But we're six years in at this point. And every day is getting an inch or losing an inch.


09;09;28;00 - 09;09;16;00

Craig

And if we're not. And this is no different. Any other thing in life. If we're not out there getting the edge, there's plenty of people out there to scoop that inch up. And I love being in that environment.


09;09;15;01 - 09;09;00;18

Craig

Because I just I just I don't know if my brain could function or I could function in a society where I have the free, the freedom to succeed or fail. And it's up to me. It's not up to anybody else.


09;09;00;18 - 09;08;45;07

Craig

It's not up to some bureaucratic decision or political decision or where I'm from or any of those consequences, right in America. It's a beautiful thing. It doesn't matter. It's going to be more difficult for certain people than others, 100%.


09;08;44;17 - 09;08;28;07

Craig

But in this beautiful country, if you if you are greedy enough, if you are willing to be told no. I mean, if you are so, so thick headed that the word no doesn't mean anything to you anymore. Now it doesn't just go out the window, right?


09;08;28;06 - 09;08;18;17

Craig

You learn from why didn't this group say yes? Why didn't this group see us? And you better yourself every time and you see why that person said, No, I'm not going to give the next person the same benefit of doubt.


09;08;18;07 - 09;08;08;26

Craig

I'm going to make them find a different weakness, and they're going to have to come up with a different excuse to tell me no. If you keep doing that in this beautiful country, it's amazing what people can do.


09;08;08;21 - 09;07;56;08

Jon

If you if you draw breath and have enough time, it's very difficult not to win if you're indomitable. And it's really the American spirit, right? Like, yeah, we had a couple of ships of deeds come over with their families and like, Oh yeah, let's try the new world.


09;07;56;07 - 09;07;39;28

Jon

And that grew into a few states. And they're like, Yeah, we're going to tell the greatest superpower human superpower on the entire planet to fluff themselves and that where you don't want them to bother us anymore and to do these things to us and take advantage of us and the United States is born.


09;07;39;19 - 09;07;26;02

Jon

And on and on it goes. You know, take take the West and build. And now here we are. It's the American spirit. It's indomitable you. If you were indomitable, it's amazing. What can happen? And that is what I think the American spirit is.


09;07;26;02 - 09;07;16;08

Jon

In looking at your story, you just summed up the American dream in entrepreneurship in a nutshell, but everyone wants to focus on the wins and the examples of people succeed.


09;07;16;03 - 09;07;14;22

Craig

Yeah, it's not how you get there, right?


09;07;14;16 - 09;06;57;24

Jon

You just shared a story of which 99% in years and years and years of struggle were failure. Learn, reapply, failure, learn, reapply with no guarantee of anything ever coming from it. And you just kept going back to the drawing board.


09;06;57;24 - 09;06;40;04

Jon

Kept reengaging and then you got something right from the years of learning. You earn something from the years of learning, from the years of application, from the choice to just wipe off your wounds and keep pushing in. You finally got the opening that you were working for to be able to do your own company and to keep


09;06;40;04 - 09;06;34;11

Jon

pressing forward. And now you're fighting day in and day out for that inch, so someone else doesn't scoop it up like you said.


09;06;33;24 - 09;06;20;20

Craig

It was because because the inches don't stay with you. No, that's what people don't realize. It's not like, OK, I've got this inch. It's mine forever. You know, it's not those nose that people people are always going to tell you and doubt you and say that you're wrong.


09;06;20;04 - 09;06;03;01

Craig

And there's nothing. I mean, that's that's human nature, right? There's there's there's business decisions why people don't want to invest. It's most of the time. Looking back, this was an enlightening, enlightening thing is every time we were told no or I was told no through life, go go back to the football camp.


09;06;02;29 - 09;05;51;28

Craig

I mean, it's crushing for me as a younger guy, I lost my dream like a head coach is interested. This position coach is interested, man. This is I mean, this guy is going to USC in front of me like, I'm doing pretty well.


09;05;50;05 - 09;05;35;27

Craig

Most likely what? Well, I thought the reason why he said no and turned his back and walked away is probably a completely different reason why they actually did that. And he's the more I thought about this. I mean, I was very, very torn up about it for a long time.


09;05;35;27 - 09;05;21;22

Craig

I was like, Man, he's he just he cares about, you know, the small town white farm kid. Like, he doesn't care that this this. No, he probably looked at it from at least. I hope so. Anyway, objectively saying, and he's never played corner.


09;05;21;13 - 09;05;10;12

Craig

We're going to throw him. He's going to get thrown to the wolves like they're wanting him to play early. He's never played corner. He doesn't understand the fundamental. And I didn't at the time. Yeah, but that never went through my head.


09;05;10;02 - 09;04;53;06

Craig

Right. It's just automatically you think of the most atrocious reasons why people tell you, no, there's probably legitimate reasons why people are telling, you know, and if you just turn that off and allow yourself the excuse of, well, it's because of this someone's planted the seed.


09;04;53;06 - 09;04;40;00

Craig

You're always going to have to struggle with this. You're always going to struggle with this and you automatically default. That that's the reason why people are telling, you know, you never written, you never have the ability to learn the real reason why people are telling, you know, yep, OK.


09;04;40;00 - 09;04;39;10

Craig

Well, we're spending.


09;04;38;13 - 09;04;37;16

Jon

And there's value in that.


09;04;37;16 - 09;04;36;16

Craig

There's massive value.


09;04;36;16 - 09;04;34;26

Jon

Because there's learnings and where you're weak.


09;04;34;25 - 09;04;34;01

Craig

Absolutely.


09;04;34;00 - 09;04;18;13

Lindsey

We also have to be courageous enough to ask, why did you say no right like you are? Sometimes you have to be like, OK, I understand. You know, you said no, but can you tell me why? You know, take it as that learning experience and go, OK, can I do better next time?


09;04;17;28 - 09;04;01;13

Jon

Yeah, because if your performance wasn't perfect, I'm remembering a conversation we had earlier with Marcus, and he was talking about how he left the game, right? He's an athlete. Also, I think you heard that episode as well. And he's all upset because the coach wasn't leaving him in in his dad's psych.


09;04;01;13 - 09;03;49;15

Jon

Well, did you essentially play every play perfectly without any errors and gain every advantage for your team? You could, right? That's the essential takeaway from it. He's like, Well, no, of course not. He's like, Well, maybe you should.


09;03;49;06 - 09;03;36;06

Jon

It's the same thing for you. It's like, Well, I don't know his reasons now. I want to assume that all these things that give me an hour, like those kids in the class for school, my kids who were laughing when they saw their poor scores and then the kid that they were making fun of at the back


09;03;36;06 - 09;03;23;14

Jon

of the class got the only one. Right? You don't give yourself the the out. And I think one of the things over time, like you're saying, Lindsey, is not just like one step in maturity is to say, OK, there's probably legitimate reasons.


09;03;23;14 - 09;03;13;14

Jon

I hope there's legitimate reasons here that I didn't have the perspective to see being in the position I was in. And then the next step of maturity is to say, OK, because I assume this, I'm going to seek it out, right?


09;03;13;08 - 09;03;04;03

Jon

Hey, thanks for let me know and get the job. Can you help me understand why exactly I want to improve myself so that I can better serve the next organization and do get with right? Hey, why don't you want to sign up?


09;03;04;03 - 09;02;53;23

Lindsey

And they might not always give you the way. I mean, that's something that you got to just be like, Oh, I won't. And it's like, OK, well, I'll keep chugging along. And Mr. Jones, they do give you the why and you're like, Oh, wow.


09;02;53;18 - 09;02;49;21

Lindsey

I do see where I made that mistake, and that was a huge one. I really appreciate that.


09;02;49;11 - 09;02;37;11

Craig

It takes humility to have that, though. Yeah, it takes humility, is I? So here here's this business idea. Here's this business model we're pitching to you. What do you think? Run it through. You know, however, many traps know we're not going to do it.


09;02;36;25 - 09;02;30;26

Craig

OK, why not? What do we need to tweak in this business model? That's going to help? OK, well, you're spending too much, Jenny. You're one.


09;02;29;28 - 09;02;28;02

Jon

And some of these wants Genie.


09;02;27;06 - 09;02;23;04

Craig

General administered like general administrative costs. So it's like you're overhead of a business. Right?


09;02;22;28 - 09;02;21;17

Jon

So to find you to get things.


09;02;21;17 - 09;02;08;18

Craig

Going, pretty much right. So, yeah, so we would, you know, hire X amount of engineers, whatever your lease rates were in offices, like how much are you spending to run the business on top outside of, you know, standing up a rig and drilling wells, things like that.


09;02;08;10 - 09;01;53;17

Craig

What are your extremely manageable? And every cost is manageable, but you know, what are you basically? What are you paying people, things like that? And you know what? Some of these groups were, they were that legitimate concerns of, you know, this is you're spending too much here, here, here and it helps you.


09;01;53;07 - 09;01;41;11

Craig

You have to be humble enough, though, for them to say, Well, you're just not looking at it, right? And that's the culture like that is the the younger culture. I won't even say younger culture is just, you know, where the narrative is going is like.


09;01;40;03 - 09;01;24;00

Craig

You can't be just a goat and, you know, knock down this fence and say that, you know, I'm going to keep hearing no, and he keep hearing, if you don't change what you're doing, you're not going to get a different result, but you have to you have to be humble enough to say, you know, listen to the


09;01;24;00 - 09;01;18;17

Craig

feedback of every time you're told no, because it's going to happen way more. Some people saying you, you.


09;01;18;17 - 09;01;17;23

Jon

Take it into account.


09;01;17;21 - 09;01;06;16

Craig

Take it into account and better yourself from it. Yeah. Even, you know some of the time, it may not even be legitimate. But that really allows you to do your own kind of self, analyze and let you see.


09;01;06;16 - 09;00;58;25

Craig

Like, How can I get better at this? Well, I looked at this and I'm doing this. This this is not the guy's just an asshole, and there's going to be some of those people.


09;00;58;24 - 09;00;58;15

Lindsey

Right?


09;00;58;02 - 09;00;38;07

Craig

Most of the time, people have a legitimate reason of why they're saying no, and it's not a bigoted reason. It's not anything like that. It's because. This is a competitive life that we are in, and everyone's out to bat to grab those inches because you can take those inches away from people and it's you made an earlier


09;00;38;07 - 09;00;22;06

Craig

point, Jon is like, you know, sacrifice and make a decision, make a decision. You're never really done right. You're never done. And the ignorance of believing what people say at that this was that might even have been the same camp that football camp.


09;00;22;06 - 09;00;12;18

Craig

I remember a high school coach got up and said, Guys, this is very, very simple. And it's probably one of the most vivid things I've remembered from any coach saying anything. And I didn't even know the guy's name.


09;00;12;05 - 09;00;01;23

Craig

It was a huge group of people, and he was just, you know, I think it was a break and he just wanted to say this thing. He said, Guys. And it's a very simple thing. You're either getting better or you're getting worse every day.


09;00;00;23 - 10;59;46;19

Craig

Now, most people, they probably heard it 100 times when out one went out the other. But for some reason, that has stuck with me from that day forward is I did I get better today? Where did I get worse today?


10;59;46;19 - 10;59;32;16

Craig

Did I get the inch today or did I lose the inch today? And every decision that I've made and trust me, I'm not a person sitting here saying I win every day and I crush. I don't. I lose a lot of days, but I have to be honest with myself, and I think you guys are the same


10;59;32;12 - 10;59;22;16

Craig

kind of people when you go to bed at night and say, Did I win today? If you just sit there and say, Yeah, for me, for whatever reasons like I wanted it and I on win, win, win, win.


10;59;22;16 - 10;59;16;27

Craig

And you're never really if you don't, if you haven't admitted that you've lost some days, you've never really won one.


10;59;16;23 - 10;59;16;11

Jon

Correct.


10;59;16;05 - 10;59;02;29

Craig

You if you've never lost. And that's a really important thing if you've never lost, if you've never hit the bottom, you've never really been on top. You don't know what. You don't know what it's like to lose. Yeah.


10;59;02;28 - 10;58;52;28

Craig

And that's like, we got young kids in sports, right? You know, and you've got kids that never lose, never lose all the way, you know, from Pee Wee's High School. This not.


10;58;52;05 - 10;58;50;27

Lindsey

Because they participated.


10;58;50;26 - 10;58;38;05

Craig

Because they participated. They've never felt that crushing blow that, you know, you didn't you didn't get a play today or you got put on your back or you did this or this, and that they've never felt the pain of defeat and loss.


10;58;37;15 - 10;58;33;03

Craig

And if you don't feel that you don't really know what it feels like to win and that's business sports, anything.


10;58;33;03 - 10;58;22;11

Jon

In the simplest way to describe. It's like if you don't know what it's like to be really hungry, then being full is not a satisfying. You know, it's that dichotomy. If you need both to flavor the stew of life, you need both.


10;58;22;05 - 10;58;06;04

Jon

Yeah. And you know, so, so looking at all of this, why not settle? You know, today you're still, you know, you're fighting for the right? Oh, and one other thing the whole concept of either you win the day or you don't that there's this whole idea of like you'll hear people always talking about how they're maintaining, Oh


10;58;05;25 - 10;57;58;20

Jon

, I'm just in this maintaining program right now or I'm just had a state fly. four things are good, so I'm just going to sit here, you know, I like this. I'm just going to keep doing the work to keep this.


10;57;58;08 - 10;57;42;11

Jon

And I genuinely don't believe you can maintain a lifestyle. And I don't think you can maintain a place in your life because seasons are meant to change, right? Like, nothing is infinite. And because of that, whenever I hear that or I think about, I'm falling into the trap myself, I'm gonna go, Whoa, whoa, whoa.


10;57;42;03 - 10;57;25;11

Jon

I can't artificially keep this going. I can't maintain this level of output or performance forever because I will kind of like a frog in a kettle, allow myself to be lied to in thinking I'm maintaining. But in reality, I'm very, very, very slowly.


10;57;24;13 - 10;57;12;13

Jon

Decreasing right and falling down and slowing down, I'm getting worse, so I think that there's a lot more truth in either take the ensure you give the inch you either win the day or you lose the day. There is no I maintain the day period.


10;57;12;09 - 10;57;11;23

Jon

That's a lie.


10;57;11;22 - 10;57;11;00

Craig

I agree with you.


10;57;11;00 - 10;57;01;25

Jon

In with that. And to me, that's kind of one of the actionable takeaways for us from from the conversations like, Hey, don't give yourself the out of I maintain the day. Did you win or did you lose it?


10;57;01;11 - 10;56;49;19

Lindsey

Yeah. And be really critical on yourself, like you have to start looking within to be like, OK, so you can win, maybe in like one or two areas, but that means you for sure are lost in another area.


10;56;49;03 - 10;56;30;23

Lindsey

And then it's like, OK, so was that loss the overall arching of the day? Because if it's like, Oh, well, I may, you know, like I want in my fitness today, I did great and nutrition this and the other, but I didn't interact at all with my children, and we really needed to talk through these issues because


10;56;30;23 - 10;56;20;29

Lindsey

things are happening. It's like, Yeah, sure, I won the day. No, you didn't. You just messed up like a whole day with your kids and like, that's hard to get back.


10;56;20;20 - 10;56;10;18

Jon

And you know, I'm really glad you brought that up because life is not so simplistic as one goal that we get to pursue. Especially, you know, all of us, your parents and all of us here have many responsibilities.


10;56;10;18 - 10;55;51;18

Jon

And it's like. It's not just today when the damn business right now, that is one of the critical factors of did I win the day? Certainly. And it affects everything else. But was I a good father? Was exactly a good husband, a good friend, you know, was I, you know, properly aligned with the ideals that I pursue


10;55;51;18 - 10;55;41;24

Jon

and serve? You know, there's all these facets that must be taken to account to really have that comprehensive win, right? But yeah, today was a slam dunk or no.


10;55;41;09 - 10;55;23;03

Craig

Lindsay, for you to just simply ask that question kind of defines of a speaks a lot about you is who you are as a wife and a mother because it does appear that in our society, just like you said, Jon, if you're crushing it in the business meeting or you crushed your workout and you do everything that's


10;55;23;03 - 10;55;07;00

Craig

great for you individually, well, then you're winning. It doesn't matter. Your kids are falling behind in school in that you're you're you're your partner's frustrated or things like that because it's it's about you individually. And that's why we love being around you guys so much.


10;55;06;27 - 10;54;50;14

Craig

It's not about you individually, Jon. It's not about you individually, Lindsay. It's not about Gabriel. It's you are a family, right? You are a family and did. And that's a that's a very, very important thing is. Did the family get an inch today, or did the family lose an inch today?


10;54;50;12 - 10;54;40;11

Craig

Right, right. And you have to take into account so many different things that so many different variables. The older we get, the more complicated it gets, the more difficult it is to know if you're winning or not. Yeah, right.


10;54;39;28 - 10;54;26;03

Craig

And the thing is, I guess like them, the more gritty your day becomes, the more gritty your life becomes. In my opinion, I think that's where you're going if you're gaining the entire losing. It's not easy to get those inches.


10;54;26;03 - 10;54;25;06

Craig

It's very hard.


10;54;25;06 - 10;54;24;02

Lindsey

It's hard to fight for them.


10;54;24;02 - 10;54;14;21

Craig

The enemy hates it and you hate it when you chalk up a win for a family. He hates it now when individuals are chalking up wins for themselves. He's cheering them on.


10;54;14;20 - 10;54;07;25

Jon

Great job because it's further isolation, which leads straight to the the greater propensity for someone to stumble and fall.


10;54;07;25 - 10;53;52;28

Lindsey

And it goes into this like, Oh, I'm doing all of this for the family and I'm. But it's not bleeding into that. It's, you know, you're bettering yourself and you're leaving them behind. Exactly. And it's like, you have to take them with you.


10;53;52;27 - 10;53;39;14

Lindsey

You have to take your partner with you. You have to figure out how to build a community and be like, I know today was hard, but we're going to get it better tomorrow. And like, how do you know you got to come behind people and really go?


10;53;39;11 - 10;53;37;12

Lindsey

Let's all take this together.


10;53;37;09 - 10;53;19;17

Jon

Yes, that's one of the things I failed as a as an officer in the military is I was crushing it. I was crushing it. Sure, as a as an officer and as a soldier, right? Like everyone I worked with were blown away, very unhappy when we made the decision to leave, but I realized I was catastrophically failing


10;53;19;03 - 10;53;05;02

Jon

as a husband and as a father. And that was it, because I was gone a lot. It was because of how I had set up success and what I was doing, and it was all based on this counterfeit truth, otherwise known as a lie.


10;53;04;09 - 10;52;47;27

Jon

You know, for a bit of humor of what I'm doing this for them, right? I'm making this sacrifice so that they can stay safe. I'm making these sacrifices and working these hours so that they can have X, Y and Z so that my boys can grow up in a free country so that all this jazz, right?


10;52;47;18 - 10;52;28;21

Jon

And what I really realized is that was an excuse. For me to be selfish and to do something that, though difficult, was not as difficult as fully absorbing the comprehensive picture of what was required of me. Exactly. And we decided to leave the military and you know, the story goes on from there.


10;52;28;12 - 10;52;10;16

Jon

And that's not the point of today's conversation, but the value of it is, are we comprehensively winning and, you know, looking to drift? Not too long ago, we we released a short episode where we talked about how we will not comply and how we were protesting government mandates specifically as an overreach on our freedoms.


10;52;10;01 - 10;52;00;13

Jon

And I've been thinking about that a lot and the risks that are coming in the coming months because of those decisions. You know, for us financially and all these other things, and I can't help but think two things.


10;52;00;13 - 10;51;46;08

Jon

one, I couldn't do any of this, this pursuit to fight for the win of the day and everything, if it wasn't for how my faith has evolved into something genuine and real because I wouldn't have the courage or the audacity or the bravery to take on the risks we're taking.


10;51;46;08 - 10;51;39;21

Jon

If I didn't feel that they were in line with what I believe the calling in my life and for my families, you know, so that's that's a big deal.


10;51;39;15 - 10;51;22;03

Craig

Well, if you have faith in Jesus Christ. There really is no risks on this planet other than not having faith in him. I think of think of what I think of what you think can be taken away from you and that you want to hold on to money is this is that?


10;51;20;29 - 10;51;03;27

Craig

The only thing that can be taken away from me that I truly is concerned about is my family. But I know with faith in Jesus Christ that can't even be taken away from the enemy can do whatever he wants on this planet, and he does awful, horrendous, terrible, terrible things on this planet.


10;51;02;15 - 10;50;47;03

Craig

But you know what, he does not have authority over my family or my my any anyone that has to do anyone that has faith in him. And Jesus Christ, the devil has no authority because life does not end, right?


10;50;47;02 - 10;50;34;02

Craig

That is the interest that never goes away. Yes. And I've never really thought about that until this conversation. Right. We're battling for human inches here. We have what we think are wins and losses, and I think they're they're absolutely legitimate.


10;50;33;12 - 10;50;22;14

Craig

But at the end of the day, there is a goal to what we are all doing here, right? There's a goal and it's not to, you know, make a business successful or become a professional athlete or this or that.


10;50;22;14 - 10;50;06;25

Craig

It's not that it's at some point. I've told this to my wife and my daughters. I said, regardless of what happens on this planet, we will be as one in front of Jesus Christ, in front of God, and we will be in a place where there is no pain and suffering.


10;50;06;13 - 10;49;50;25

Craig

And, you know, sloth and greed and the seven Deadly Sins, there is none of the evil and terrible things that happen on this planet. It's just the good things. And could you comprehend, can you wrap your head around a place where just the amazing good things just were the Holy Spirit, right?


10;49;50;23 - 10;49;42;14

Craig

Hmm. If you just had that and you didn't have the enemy, right? That is the goal, right? And if you that's the inch that never goes away, that's eternity.


10;49;42;14 - 10;49;24;09

Jon

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because the. I've had an interesting journey along this line of conversation. And for me that one of the things I think about because in going back to our entire conversation of why not settle right, say how dare I settle is kind of my thing.


10;49;24;09 - 10;49;07;14

Jon

It's like, I can't learn anything from this gift. But the decisions I've made and where I should be compared to where I am on certain aspects of our life and in things like that, it's like the very minimum I can do for the gift that we're describing of salvation and for the the gift of having a mighty


10;49;07;14 - 10;48;47;14

Jon

God to serve. The very the least I can do is go for broke every single day to the best of my ability to gain the most comprehensive wins I can for my family to build community that can come together and have families now supporting one another to bring people into the fold, to find those who are downtrodden


10;48;47;14 - 10;48;33;02

Jon

and cast out right and like miserable and say, Hey, like no, there is hope for you. Pick yourself up. Let's start doing some work. Let's start building, embrace this whole difficulty thing, and let's build something you can begin to be proud of and you're not alone.


10;48;32;28 - 10;48;17;15

Jon

And let's strive. And that's where you know the highest view of what is the great thing about. It's using the freedom that we've been given and have to create more freedom so that people can live fulfilled lives. And, you know, Lindsay on coffee and grit, her show talked about one of the main things she is passionate about


10;48;17;15 - 10;48;07;28

Jon

is building community. It's like, here's the gift of what we're accomplishing now. We're sitting with you, having these amazing conversations. You live ten minutes down the road, which country neighbors.


10;48;07;17 - 10;48;05;11

Craig

And oh yeah, and we're neighbors. Yeah.


10;48;04;22 - 10;47;42;18

Jon

Yeah, we're the equivalent of like two houses down. Yeah. And and it's all just even if I guess it's a different type of win, because even if. I'm taking some losses. The momentum. It's beginning to build in the direction, right, that we are fighting to fight for, it's like one of our goals is to build community communities


10;47;42;18 - 10;47;31;14

Jon

being built. And we may lose a couple other battles or different fights or different aspects of the the game as we continue for. But there is momentum in all these fights as well. And that's there's something a little bit redeeming about this.


10;47;31;14 - 10;47;19;21

Jon

I'm pulling on the idea as you're speaking, but think about the family if we lose the day for the family, but we've won the last nine, right, then the momentum of the last nine will help us to overcome the loss of the 10th day.


10;47;19;19 - 10;47;06;19

Jon

And we can then that doesn't mean you ride that momentum. But there's some grace in that. There's a little bit of peace and OK, we can dust ourselves off. It's a new day. Let's reengage and win today because we failed on this aspect of life yesterday.


10;47;06;15 - 10;47;04;15

Craig

I agree you're not always going to win.


10;47;04;11 - 10;47;04;01

Jon

No.


10;47;03;17 - 10;46;43;10

Craig

And you said something, you know, back back to settling, right? Why would you not settle? Mm-Hmm. And I'm sure there will be people listening who who don't believe religiously the way that I do. Right? But as far as settling the regardless, if you're religious or not, the most altruistic thing that you can likely do is apply yourself


10;46;43;10 - 10;46;24;29

Craig

and the skills that you've had, whether you think their God given or not to improve your community. And if you improve yours and sell yourself, you improve your community, improve those around you. The most altruistic thing you can possibly do is to be good to your, you know, your theme, Griddy to keep grinding, to keep SAC, to


10;46;24;29 - 10;46;10;22

Craig

keep applying yourself as best as you possibly can. That is the most altruistic thing, right? If you apply the skills that everybody's skills are somewhat different. If everyone settles and everyone just relaxes and goes through, well, we're fine.


10;46;10;22 - 10;46;00;08

Craig

We're good here. We don't have do anything more. You can see what happens with those societies and without getting political or whether that's socialism or communism or what it is.


10;45;59;29 - 10;45;59;02

Lindsey

Take it as health.


10;45;58;29 - 10;45;58;14

Craig

It is.


10;45;58;13 - 10;45;51;04

Lindsey

I mean, if you look at it just, you know, from a health aspect, if I go eat McDonald's every day, I'm going to turn into that.


10;45;51;02 - 10;45;50;17

Craig

Exactly.


10;45;50;16 - 10;45;45;14

Lindsey

I'm not going to, you know, you miss your vegetables, that's settling. That's comfort. That's easy.