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20. Love Labor Not Leisure



 

*NEW & IMPROVED AUDIO! Today we explore the following concepts in our pursuit to better understand our relationship with work and life. "You are entitled to the works, not to the rewards." - Bhagavad Gita "Man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked." - Viktor Frankl

Highlights include: - Focus on the work. - Creating the meaning of life. - Desire as a contract with yourself. - What are you entitled to? - Looking in the mirror. - Repeating 0 to 18 - Embrace the process. - Your two lives. - Thank you for joining us in the journey.


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08;06;40;03 - 08;06;24;06

Jon

So today we're having a topical conversation and exploration, right? And that's the other thing that I really love from the onset. You and I have been journeymen looking to share. The journey of our conversations, the exploration with those who want to listen and join in the conversation, that's right.


08;06;23;29 - 08;06;00;04

Jon

So to those who have endured some of the learning curves, thank you and we'll keep on chugging on tap. But today's conversation is kind of fun, and there's a few ideas really from all different. Sources of philosophy that we can we can discuss and explore and see if we want to call Barbra Streisand on it, or we


08;06;00;04 - 08;05;48;20

Jon

think there's some truth to it and just have some fun with. But it kind of circles around the idea of the meaning of life, right? And how we have agency in determining how we.


08;05;48;20 - 08;05;48;10

Jon

Live.


08;05;48;00 - 08;05;27;21

Jon

And how valuable that is. Mm hmm. Right. And that's that is the actionable takeaway that I'm hoping to further solidify in my mind through our conversation. That's right. Is. All right. Let's test this idea and see. How much control can I take of what is the value of living?


08;05;27;17 - 08;05;26;11

Jon

That's right. Yeah.


08;05;26;00 - 08;05;08;29

Aaron

I think, yeah, and I'm trying. I'm like forcing my mind not to go into like political events right now, but I'm thinking about how there's so much narrative out there. And this isn't even now. This is an old problem where people don't really they really take responsibility for what they can control in their life.


08;05;08;28 - 08;04;54;14

Aaron

And there's a lot of our conversation that we're going to get into is, you know, what are the things that we do decide to do? What do we have control over and what value that is going to bring to not just ourselves, but the world we live in?


08;04;54;11 - 08;04;54;01

Aaron

Mm-Hmm.


08;04;52;07 - 08;04;34;21

Jon

Correct. So that there's a few, I think, nuggets that we can use to kind of start us off just to kind of frame it in right there. And I really enjoy them. So one is from Viktor Frankl. And in his book, Man Search of Meaning is where he talks about a lot.


08;04;34;21 - 08;04;10;22

Jon

But his entire life's work really surrounds the the theory here. And if you aren't familiar with Viktor Frankl, he was a psychologist who endured six concentration camps during World War two, survive them and then fathered Lago therapy, which is a form of psychological practice but had some interesting perspectives on like finding the value in life.


08;04;10;16 - 08;04;07;09

Aaron

He is certainly qualifies to speak on mental fortitude.


08;04;06;21 - 08;03;53;20

Jon

I think so. Yeah, I mean, one of the things I just always remember from reading his book is talking about the beauty of a flower that was not yet trampled in the middle of a concentration camp, as like the smoke was rising from the crematoriums.


08;03;53;02 - 08;03;41;02

Jon

Right. So it's like, you know, or the young lady who found beauty in the willow tree outside of her window. Yeah. And like how, though sometimes finding those simple things just kept you alive? Right? So it's kind of fun.


08;03;41;02 - 08;03;25;14

Jon

And here's the premise at least one of the quotes attributed to him, you know, and I think it hits the center point. But man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked.


08;03;24;25 - 08;03;24;24

Jon

To.


08;03;24;11 - 08;03;21;02

Jon

Put put another way the meaning of life is to give life meaning.


08;03;19;29 - 08;03;19;10

Jon

Right, right?


08;03;19;06 - 08;03;02;21

Jon

Yeah. Yeah. And. It kind of changes the game, right? Because if we take that as a starting point and then we inject this other. If we just think about that for a minute, where does that leave you? Hmm.


08;03;02;07 - 08;02;56;03

Jon

Like what if? What does it mean? It's up to us to answer the question in the moment.


08;02;55;05 - 08;02;36;18

Aaron

It's a I. I perceive this a couple of different ways, like one. I think of. If you allow for this kind of coast mentality where you're you're living your life and you're letting life tell you who you are, what's happening, it will tell you something it will.


08;02;35;26 - 08;02;14;08

Aaron

It will make you go a direction of passivity and one that really maybe allows you to do things even that are destructive or lazy or really not engaging. Or it will tell you all the things you can't do, or it will only let you live life with your eyes and not with your mind and your vision.


08;02;13;13 - 08;01;59;23

Aaron

And so to me, the greater narrative of life is not what is just what is seen in front of you. There's there's a meta narrative. There's something that's very much larger than what that we have. We all are suspicious of it.


08;01;59;07 - 08;01;47;04

Aaron

And then we're asking ourselves, what is what is my job in that? And what's amazing is that much of it is, what do you choose to contribute to, what is greater than what is just seen?


08;01;44;25 - 08;01;30;23

Jon

Yeah, I think the meta narrative, right, is is part of how you answer the question. Right, because because if I just am sitting here, like, what can I do for John today, I'm not going to find a lot of motivation after a certain point, it's going to peter out real quick.


08;01;30;12 - 08;01;14;22

Jon

So it's like if all I'm doing is serving some small task that is dead, when once it's complete, I'm going to run out of steam, right? You know, so it's like, there's this very old print, this very well thought that you have to find an ideal bigger than yourself.


08;01;14;19 - 08;01;14;11

Jon

Mm hmm.


08;01;13;11 - 08;01;07;09

Jon

That is not truly attainable, but that you can spend your life well in the pursuit of wealth.


08;01;07;09 - 08;00;52;28

Aaron

Frankel mentions this elsewhere in his writings that he said that we will we will just that we will not be able to continue a cause unless it's greater than ourselves or it's for someone else. It will, as you say, kind of peter out.


08;00;52;24 - 08;00;52;14

Jon

Yeah.


08;00;52;05 - 08;00;50;27

Aaron

It has to be bigger than that.


08;00;50;11 - 08;00;49;08

Jon

Absolutely.


08;00;46;28 - 08;00;37;29

Aaron

I think vanity only takes us so far. And what's amazing is that if if vanity is our aim, look no further than the fact that we get old, you know.


08;00;37;29 - 08;00;36;02

Jon

Eventually no matter.


08;00;36;02 - 08;00;24;24

Aaron

What. And we've we've we've seen those people that have clung too hard to trying to act like look like they're 20 or something. It's just like it's inevitable vanity goes away, but the narrative doesn't. Our contribution to it doesn't.


08;00;23;27 - 08;00;10;25

Jon

Well, what I'm reminded of is you see this a lot in career, in athletics and in like certain more, you could say, societally set goals. Maybe. A lot of them are very self-serving. Right? So it's like, get married.


08;00;10;25 - 09;59;53;17

Jon

Have kids, buy a house, right? Make a certain amount of money. Maybe if you're an athlete, it's get to the Olympics or if you're a football player, the NFL. Yep, right. Those are fun. And there's how you interact with some of those very well may become bigger than that.


09;59;53;09 - 09;59;35;08

Jon

Right? But at their base level, they're very self-serving. I want to go to the Olympics, right? I need to achieve this in the NFL or when the Super Bowl. You know, I want to earn this much money and check the block and have a family and kids in the house, you know, so like when you look at


09;59;35;08 - 09;59;20;03

Jon

those and I'm reminded of a brooks. David Brooks's book The second Mountain here in the whole concept is what happens once you get to the finish line on those self-serving tasks. Right? Like, there's that first mountain, you pick it and you're making the money you've won.


09;59;19;20 - 09;59;05;07

Jon

You medal in the Olympics and everything. It's like now. What? Right, right? And that's where he he premises the idea of a second mountain. Right. And that's where it's at. OK, well, I've accomplished these things. I also now have the freedom that comes with some of that accomplishment.


09;59;05;02 - 09;58;49;28

Jon

Right? My needs are being met in such a way like, you know, the hierarchy of needs. You know, I'm not starving. I have resources. So I have a bit more freedom to think because you're not going to think existentially or philosophically if you're starving, right?


09;58;49;26 - 09;58;45;29

Jon

I think that's rare. I guess, frankly, I should keep proving us wrong here.


09;58;45;29 - 09;58;44;05

Jon

But you know.


09;58;43;06 - 09;58;30;27

Jon

But but as a Premiere, it's like if you're worried about your next meal, that's probably going to consume more of your mindset than, like, what's the meaning of life? Or How can I better live this thing, right? But the whole idea is like once you get to a certain point, you know, a lot of people who.


09;58;29;12 - 09;58;13;14

Jon

Accomplishes big goals they've spent a decade pursuing. They'll talk about this depression that kind of hits them once they realize they've quote unquote made it right. And I think that's because back to the ideal thing that we're talking about, if you're not pursuing something bigger than yourself, something that's inspiring.


09;58;11;15 - 09;58;00;20

Jon

Something that forces you to become better. Almost as like an act of service, typically, then then you're going to hit a point where you lose meaning in that. Right, right?


09;58;00;19 - 09;57;47;22

Aaron

Well, it's sort of the I think it's the core narrative of anybody who's who's even suicidal, right? I mean, that's what you hear is like my life is not contributing to anything. It'd be better. Like, this world would be better off without me.


09;57;47;22 - 09;57;31;07

Aaron

It's like, is the voice we think is unique, but it's it's common, like it's the same evil narrative that's attacking our mind all the time. You know, maybe, maybe you aren't worth anything. And the fact is that's I guess both are true.


09;57;31;06 - 09;57;16;16

Aaron

You, you aren't worth anything and you are worth something in the sense that what are you going to do with your life? I mean, you could crawl into bed and do nothing, contribute nothing. I think we all have intrinsic value, as evidenced by even our Declaration of Independence.


09;57;16;16 - 09;57;03;14

Aaron

I mean, people do have value in just being. But they do. They have value to society or value to the greater narrative of human life, the humankind. That's up to us if we're going to do something about that.


09;57;03;06 - 09;56;47;15

Jon

Yeah. And that's equality of opportunity versus equality of or versus equality of output, right? Or equity of our planet. And they're different. I think what you're hitting is the the idea. And this is not Frenkel. It's younger. Yeah.


09;56;47;05 - 09;56;36;11

Jon

The other dude who was alongside young kind of competing ideas of the time and forgetting his name at the Freud. Yet Freud, it's attributed, I think, to one of them, maybe even Nietzsche. So I'm going to stop guessing.


09;56;36;04 - 09;56;33;14

Jon

It's one of those guys I know. It's just not frank.


09;56;33;06 - 09;56;32;07

Aaron

one of those renaissance.


09;56;31;25 - 09;56;31;12

Jon

You know.


09;56;30;08 - 09;56;29;20

Jon

Words like.


09;56;29;20 - 09;56;28;25

Aaron

Father, psychologist.


09;56;28;24 - 09;56;15;22

Jon

Psychology, philosophy. Yeah. But it's just if you have a Y, you can withstand anyone. Right? And like, there's a lot of that that's sprinkled in. Well, no, he directly attributed it. Oh, really? He builds on it a lot.


09;56;15;07 - 09;56;05;01

Jon

And he talks about, like how the second people were going to use it on the camps. If he could help them find a way, they had a much higher chance of surviving. Right? Like, only you can be the father to your daughter.


09;56;05;01 - 09;55;56;20

Jon

Only you can create this book. Bring this book to life. But once whether it was a work or a relationship or something, they got the pet back in the step.


09;55;56;09 - 09;55;48;21

Aaron

Yeah, I think the quote was those who have a way to live, uh, can bear almost any.


09;55;48;20 - 09;55;45;12

Jon

How yeah, they go in.


09;55;45;05 - 09;55;37;26

Jon

In what I think it all comes to is like, Well, what's the what's the value of the Y right? Like, Well, how does that functionally stink and help me? And I think it's a matter of entitlement. Yeah, right.


09;55;37;19 - 09;55;16;06

Jon

What do you believe is owed to you, right? You know, and there's this Hindu principle that you're entitled to the works, but never the fruits, never the rewards. And that's an interesting thought, because if you can learn something really cool, but you can never share it with anyone, would you still want to learn it, huh?


09;55;15;00 - 09;55;08;04

Aaron

That's a fair question. Yeah, so is it is it good enough that you could teach yourself in the mirror or say it in the mirror?


09;55;07;20 - 09;54;54;13

Jon

Is it is it worth doing even if you can never shared? Right, right. Because like such and I just heard this thing because I think a lot of times and I'm guilty of this, sometimes I want to sound smart, like I want people to think I'm smart.


09;54;54;02 - 09;54;53;00

Jon

And I.


09;54;53;00 - 09;54;37;14

Jon

Want people to think I'm smart and strong and all these things. But it's like, OK, I can learn this new thing. But is it still worth learning to me if I can never share it? That's a good litmus test in my mind of if I still want to learn it, then it's worth learning.


09;54;36;14 - 09;54;24;15

Jon

It's kind of a filtration process, right? And it goes back to what am I entitled to my entitled to getting to share with you, Erin, something I learn and feel cool about it. Or am I entitled to the work of learning of the benefit of that for itself?


09;54;24;13 - 09;54;14;23

Jon

Agreed, you know, and I think that's a real premise that ties directly to. If we're in a situation, how we respond to it is meaningful.


09;54;13;24 - 09;54;06;08

Aaron

Yeah, it's it, it translates to everything else we have. I mean, if you work for fruit, fruit is like.


09;54;05;27 - 09;54;05;21

Jon

It.


09;54;04;25 - 09;53;54;01

Aaron

To me. It's like making money and buying a meal and thinking that you're building equity in your life, a meal. The meal is for the moment, the fruit is for the moment. It's very it's supposed to be temporary.


09;53;54;01 - 09;53;31;09

Aaron

It's sort of like, it's sort of like, good job, but you don't stay there. You go right back to the shovel, the plow as it were, right, because the ethic is the real win. Like when you can learn the value of putting your mind to something and whatever it is, you're just you're used to hard work.


09;53;31;09 - 09;53;17;07

Aaron

It's just and you enjoy the work in the self. In fact, it's it's kind of a blessing. And this just in that like, I'm enjoying this process. Mm-Hmm. You know, if I get fruit great, oftentimes the fruit is a surprise like, Oh.


09;53;16;03 - 09;53;15;02

Jon

I did it. Yeah.


09;53;14;08 - 09;53;13;28

Jon

Wow.


09;53;13;17 - 09;53;06;13

Jon

I mean, frankly, I remember when we when we did fix the audio quality, we jumped up and hugged each other. Yeah, I had an endorphin rush.


09;53;04;19 - 09;53;04;07

Jon

Because.


09;53;03;25 - 09;52;53;17

Jon

It's like it was a reward two months of trying. And it finally came, frankly, unexpectedly. Yeah, I wasn't losing hope, but I was getting very much to the point of like, I don't know how to fix this, right?


09;52;53;17 - 09;52;45;11

Jon

So start just with me a bit. Not that we're going to stop trying to fix it, but it was such an elation, right? And that was a joy that we can never share with anyone.


09;52;45;06 - 09;52;44;14

Jon

Yeah, but.


09;52;44;14 - 09;52;40;06

Jon

Man, it was sweet. And that was an unexpected reward for us.


09;52;40;05 - 09;52;39;29

Jon

Yep.


09;52;39;18 - 09;52;39;07

Jon

And.


09;52;37;17 - 09;52;28;18

Aaron

It was a lot of just like, yeah, because you're just doing the rote of like a cave, just keep going, keep going, don't quit, don't quit. And then all of a sudden, hey, we something great happened.


09;52;27;24 - 09;52;17;18

Jon

In like, no, we're losing people through the fight, knowing that people are like, I'm not going to listen to this because I can't hear it well. And like, you can't talk about just a little bit discouraging. So it's so nice to be sitting here.


09;52;17;05 - 09;52;04;25

Aaron

I agree. I agree. So I want to. I just have a kind of a weird picture that just come to mind, I want to see you think of this. So like I think about like this 18 year capsule we have of human growth from zero to 18, OK?


09;52;04;19 - 09;51;40;25

Aaron

And there's there's sort of like these sections of it, and I'll be succinct and not as articulating as I want to be, but basically it's you start with, I only need all the time, you know, and that first like that first of year, if you've ever had a baby in your life, all they want to do is


09;51;40;07 - 09;51;28;17

Aaron

is do all the wrong things and they don't know how to live. And I feel like the first year trying to keep thing alive because they're doing is they're trying to they're trying to crawl downstairs or trying to not eat correctly.


09;51;28;17 - 09;51;24;01

Aaron

They don't sleep correctly. They they they hurt themselves all the time.


09;51;23;24 - 09;51;22;14

Jon

They're trying to get you to kill them.


09;51;21;23 - 09;51;19;22

Jon

So, yeah, they're not pleasant.


09;51;19;19 - 09;51;03;05

Aaron

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But but that's like, that's the season they're in, like I need. And then it's like, and then they're starting to try their functions and they're learning all this. And then eventually they're going to need you to start teaching and eventually they start doing things on their own and they start learning how to do this


09;51;02;24 - 09;50;43;22

Aaron

. And then they they're developing. And then there's so much, I mean, just so many tens of thousands and maybe millions of of synaptic gaps that are being filled. I mean, just thinking about moving a finger for the first time or the weight of your leg and how it moves and how to talk and form sentences and thoughts


09;50;43;22 - 09;50;22;18

Aaron

and then abstract ideas later on. But eventually you get to like the high school years and that's what I'm in with one of my kids and they start to have their own thoughts. They start and it's very it's very chaotic because they have like this very, very complex, sleek, call it a Lamborghini that they have access to


09;50;22;18 - 09;50;05;08

Aaron

, but they have no ability to drive it or care for it correctly. And so it's very it's a lot of falling down. It's a lot of missteps in that kind of thing. But once they start feeling like they're starting to get like, I get how to eat, I get how to walk, I get how to go to


09;50;05;08 - 09;49;49;29

Aaron

school, I get how to learn. Now there's sort of a suspicion like, OK, now what? What's next? What's next like? Well, it isn't enough that you have a food and shelter and all these things and the kind of like, No, I want more.


09;49;49;24 - 09;49;33;21

Aaron

Is it enough that you like can pass the test and just get through high school? No, I kind of want more in this. People have varying time stamps in their life. You know, some people are thinking about their 25 year old that needs to have these thoughts, like maybe there's something more than being cared for.


09;49;33;12 - 09;49;09;24

Aaron

But eventually we have to stop the fruit like the fruit eventually. Doesn't it kind of sours in her mouth like, I really want to be working at something that's bigger than this, that that I I feel like that's kind of our listeners because grit only exists if you are are unhappy where you're at or you are feeling


09;49;09;24 - 09;48;56;25

Aaron

as if there is something greater than what's in the present, there's something bigger out there that you want to chase. But I we all now are understanding that there's a lot of failure on the way and this is where grit kind of kicks in.


09;48;56;25 - 09;48;40;09

Aaron

We have to go, OK, I can't quit. It's too important that I'm what I'm chasing is way too important for me to quit on it. But these are like higher level thinking what you're doing right now. This like chasing the thing that you're going after.


09;48;40;09 - 09;48;25;20

Aaron

This is you adulting. This is you going to the the fourth level of of achievement? We're no longer twelve, 13, 15 years old. We're doing new things. I hope it doesn't look like you're at that age. We are doing things that are really important.


09;48;20;28 - 09;48;02;21

Jon

I love that because I think that really articulate that really puts into perspective kind of what we're talking about second, going one in the popular opinion, just because I have found it humorous, as you said, is if you have a 19 year old who's not having, he's not working to improve their circumstances and pursue something, whatever that


09;48;02;21 - 09;47;57;24

Jon

is, hopefully independence. I would I would posit it's probably on the parents.


09;47;56;15 - 09;47;56;05

Jon

Just going.


09;47;56;05 - 09;47;55;11

Jon

To put that out there.


09;47;54;24 - 09;47;53;26

Aaron

And her comments are.


09;47;53;26 - 09;47;52;26

Jon

Blowing up. Yeah.


09;47;52;18 - 09;47;49;23

Jon

Just I'm just going to put it out there. It's probably on the parents.


09;47;48;09 - 09;47;37;12

Aaron

Well, we got to wonder what we're putting out there because I know my ten year old mimics everything I do. So what am I and what I don't do too well?


09;47;37;09 - 09;47;27;11

Jon

And here's the thing what are you? What are you expecting of them, right? Are you trying to make the roads safe for them or are you preparing them for the trials of the road? Because just to provide a little bit more context on here, it's the parents.


09;47;27;11 - 09;47;23;06

Jon

Remember guys, our conversations here, so Aaron and I can hold up the mirror to each other.


09;47;23;02 - 09;47;22;20

Aaron

Oh yeah.


09;47;22;19 - 09;47;09;14

Jon

You won't be spared that pain, you know? So it's like I remember growing up, I was fortunate enough that my father let me stay in the house past 18, but it was under conditions and those conditions were very well known to me.


09;47;09;08 - 09;47;08;13

Jon

Yeah, I'm not.


09;47;08;13 - 09;47;06;13

Jon

Joking. Yeah. Like.


09;47;06;02 - 09;47;04;09

Aaron

If I was going to be uncomfortable, I.


09;47;04;09 - 09;46;51;18

Jon

Knew for a fact and what I think was the most loving thing you could do if I was just going to lollygag around. Yeah, I would have the painful experience of figuring out what that's like to provide 100% for myself to lollygag.


09;46;51;11 - 09;46;50;13

Jon

Yeah, but.


09;46;50;13 - 09;46;40;26

Jon

He would support and catalyze my efforts further if I was spinning myself worthily in preparation for exiting the home.


09;46;40;24 - 09;46;40;13

Jon

Yeah.


09;46;40;07 - 09;46;22;03

Jon

And that was a gift. Right? Like, I'm not saying 19. Kick them out. I'm just saying, if you're upset that you have a grown adult in your house acting like a child. Put some parameters on them, yeah, so that they have to start acting like an adult or give them the hard road and I'm not I like


09;46;22;00 - 09;46;08;03

Jon

I will duplicate to the best of my ability and build on where I think is like where I see fit for my children, right? I'm not going to kick them out at 18, but they will know that they are to be pursuing something of value and proving themselves.


09;46;08;03 - 09;45;56;17

Jon

And and I'm not I'm definitively not the first person to think this way. I know there's 100 hundreds of examples of people who will teach to this, and I think it's just good stewardship. But that's the unpopular opinion for the day.


09;45;56;17 - 09;45;53;09

Jon

So if you're upset about that darn kid, think about your parenting.


09;45;52;23 - 09;45;52;19

Jon

And.


09;45;52;18 - 09;45;51;25

Jon

Think you.


09;45;51;15 - 09;45;51;07

Jon

Think.


09;45;51;07 - 09;45;45;04

Aaron

Yeah, or adhere, here's it. I think this is what's incumbent incumbent upon us, like this never stops.


09;45;44;29 - 09;45;44;19

Jon

Nope.


09;45;44;08 - 09;45;38;17

Aaron

So like, what's you're asking an 18 year old when I'm asking my ten year old to do, I am also doing.


09;45;38;02 - 09;45;28;07

Jon

And that's what I was going to say. So beautiful about your analogy. From zero to 18. Everything's cyclical. We go through seasons, right? Why is there midlife crisis roughly another 18 issues later?


09;45;27;25 - 09;45;27;17

Jon

Right?


09;45;27;16 - 09;45;17;24

Jon

If you don't go through with any self-awareness or intentionality, you're going to wake up in your mid-thirties. Be OK, I'm getting old and you're going to freak out, right? Because you're not pursuing anything. You're just hitting the motions.


09;45;17;24 - 09;45;12;07

Jon

You know, you're going to freak out. And why wouldn't you? Life is slipping away. Man, you're losing it.


09;45;12;06 - 09;45;11;10

Aaron

Yeah, exactly.


09;45;11;09 - 09;45;07;24

Jon

Die decrepitude, mostly alone in a field.


09;45;06;09 - 09;45;03;18

Jon

And I'm being a little theatrical. But like it is. Yeah.


09;45;03;17 - 09;44;52;10

Jon

But imagine, like, you know, like you said, their needs are met, right? These, you know, when a kid's grown up, their needs get met and they're learning in school and they're learning to think they're learning the question and they're asking What is the value of life?


09;44;51;25 - 09;44;48;06

Jon

Another great way I heard that question answer is because the value of life is.


09;44;47;10 - 09;44;46;06

Jon

Because, yeah.


09;44;46;03 - 09;44;35;05

Jon

And it's kind of frustrating, but it it's like, Well, it brings me back to you, right? Like, if I'm thankful there's not a meaning of life, I could one set one because then we would lose our freedom. Right.


09;44;35;03 - 09;44;18;24

Jon

And we lose our our free agency and our ability to live and explore. But if the meaning is to live well in the moment. Yeah, right. Yeah. Like, I wish I had been told. Like, I wish I knew that going through that first phase of existential crisis, right, like the meaning is to live well and do the


09;44;18;24 - 09;44;12;16

Jon

best you can at the moment and aim to something bigger than yourself. Yeah, it's the best of your ability, right? It's profound, though.


09;44;12;10 - 09;44;11;23

Jon

It's helpless.


09;44;11;11 - 09;44;00;16

Jon

I think it's actually helpful, and it relieves the burden of what am I missing? Because it answers that question of a missing living now, that's right.


09;44;00;10 - 09;43;45;23

Aaron

That's right in the living now is not you feeling good all the time that sometimes most of the time living now is it's you got to be working at it that living well is you tending the garden as it were?


09;43;45;20 - 09;43;32;22

Aaron

That's that's the good stuff. And I would say, and this is it's my own personal journey, I would say the difference between me loving fruit and loving work is when I love fruit. These are the pleasures of life.


09;43;32;20 - 09;43;25;09

Aaron

Mm-Hmm. If that was if that's all I'm trying to do. People tend to be in the way they they tend to be sugary.


09;43;25;08 - 09;43;24;01

Jon

Great. What a great look.


09;43;23;26 - 09;43;14;09

Aaron

And the opposite is true when we're when we love our mission. When you love your mission, people are the solution and you want more of them in your life.


09;43;13;23 - 09;43;03;09

Jon

I'm going to say it back to you because I just said that was really profound for me. Like that just revealed, Oh man, you're eliminating that. That eliminated a shadow in my mind. And that's what a great cue.


09;43;02;13 - 09;42;55;19

Jon

When I'm starting to look and feel like all these things are getting away, I'm I can absolutely see the correlation now, right?


09;42;55;19 - 09;42;54;11

Jon

Like, no, I'm serious, like.


09;42;54;00 - 09;42;52;08

Jon

I'm like, Oh, when I'm starting to feel the pressure of like.


09;42;52;08 - 09;42;51;25

Aaron

Oh.


09;42;51;23 - 09;42;29;16

Jon

I wish the kids were asleep worker, I wish this or this person's. You know, to an extent. It's 100% I'm focused too much on trying to get to a like get to a reward or treasure trophy or whatever, if I'm just if I'm living in the now and focused on the relationships in managing my time well and


09;42;29;16 - 09;42;15;12

Jon

focused on the work and improving myself through that and improving my craft, then to your point. It's absolutely true. Those people aren't in the way. They're your encourages, right? You know? Yeah. And maybe there's someone who is in the way and that goes back to, like, be selective of who you're with.


09;42;15;12 - 09;42;13;08

Jon

But I think in the context we're talking about, that's brilliant.


09;42;12;23 - 09;42;11;22

Aaron

I love it. Well, thanks.


09;42;11;21 - 09;42;10;24

Jon

Yeah, you're welcome here.


09;42;10;08 - 09;42;07;25

Aaron

That's what happens when you talk to your friends. Some of the good stuff comes out of you.


09;42;06;20 - 09;41;53;26

Jon

Well, and that's the thing of like really shutting your mind up to listen. Right? Because I have a few points I'd love to hit today, and I'll do the best I can to really just shut my brain up and listen to what you're saying.


09;41;53;06 - 09;41;34;09

Jon

And because of that, I just received that gift. You know, that's going to I can already tell it's already helping me. And just look at things like, yep, just focus on the work, right? Focus on how. But how can we make this the best conversation possible for each other and for those listening?


09;41;34;06 - 09;41;14;03

Jon

You know, and it's by being present and listening to each other and sharing thoughts. And it kind of goes. There is this really cool thought. I think Confucius kind of fathered it, but. Everybody has two lives. Right. two lives every single person, and the second one starts when they realize they only have one.


09;41;11;10 - 09;41;08;28

Jon

Right? Like, it's kind of fun.


09;41;07;25 - 09;40;49;08

Jon

It goes straight back to you. Well, what's the midwife to give life meaning? Because to live fully in the moment to the best of your ability, if you're not living fully in the moment you're wasting your life, you're discarding it and you can be born anew when you realize, Man, this is my shot.


09;40;49;05 - 09;40;33;22

Aaron

Yeah, absolutely. This is a gift right now. Yeah. What am I going to do with it? And am I going to take the shortcut and go right to something that I'm not owed? Or do I just work hard at it?


09;40;33;07 - 09;40;24;19

Aaron

Take care of those people around us and then one day be surprised by something I've been given a gift versus something I owe. I feel like I'm owed. Yeah, it's.


09;40;24;19 - 09;40;20;23

Jon

Like I've been working on it for 13 years and now I'm an overnight success.


09;40;20;19 - 09;40;18;10

Jon

Right? Yes. We hear it all the time, right?


09;40;18;07 - 09;40;04;14

Jon

Delivered just consistently going. And and I'm in this phase of my life right now where I'm trying to remove a lot. I'm trying to do a lot less right, but not with the butcher's knife anymore. I'm not trying to hack things off, to discard, to focus, and I want to do less.


09;40;04;13 - 09;39;43;28

Jon

Not so that I'm spending less energy or time or effort, but I want to do fewer things better and more fully right. Not like not to specialize, but to to just be better at Ave. To give a stronger yes to fewer things too, so that I can say no to the lesser things.


09;39;43;28 - 09;39;43;10

Jon

Because you mean.


09;39;43;10 - 09;39;37;15

Aaron

Because you thought very deeply about what are the what are those few things that you're really focusing on.


09;39;37;15 - 09;39;23;14

Jon

Right? Yeah, I'm thinking very deeply about them because like I realized that, you know, since leaving in the military and since leaving the military and really until like this last month and a half, I'd say I've been pushing the limit to test.


09;39;23;13 - 09;39;11;18

Jon

All right, John, where's your boundaries on how much you can carry? Where? Where your ambition? Stop, right? And you realize that you're doing too much. And I've been testing, testing, testing. I found it.


09;39;10;20 - 09;39;08;10

Jon

And it was soul crushing.


09;39;07;21 - 09;38;59;27

Jon

Finally, I woke up. I was like, 00, doing too much. And it was crushing. But it wasn't that I was carrying too much weight. It was that was caring too many things.