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17. Pursue Character _ "The Man in the Arena"


 

In 1910 before a European audience, Teddy Roosevelt delivered a speech that would challenge the accepted definition of the ideal citizen through consideration of ones character. Those who pursue character are "In the Arena" and those outside are the critics. This well known speech evokes discussion to encourage those who question the "why" of being in the arena and discounts the critical voice. Highlights Include: - The importance of character. - Physical fitness and education as a means to an end. - Why you need a "worthy cause". - The dangers of cynicism. - Be a "practitioner". - Permission to fail. - A call to try. Did you find value in today’s conversation? SHARE IT!

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08;06;40;06 - 08;06;37;19

Aaron

This is Jon Mayo and Aaron Robinson.


08;06;37;14 - 08;06;20;20

Jon

And today on the grit theory, we're going to explore a piece of motivation from our history, something that Aaron and I talked about a good amount as well as is pretty popular in most of our country, frankly. Or at least it was for a long time shows in certain circles.


08;06;19;18 - 08;06;14;26

Aaron

This quips in here that I just absolutely I just let me out by you too. I mean, both of.


08;06;14;26 - 08;06;00;11

Jon

Us, like we have got to talk about this incredible. Absolutely. And what we're talking about today is Theodore Roosevelt's Speech Citizen in the Republic and more popularly known as the man in the Rear, which is where we will start.


08;05;59;26 - 08;05;38;25

Jon

But what was really beautiful preparing for this conversation in my mind? And thank you for France and great resources there. To do that was the greater context that fueled that piece of the speech was so affirming, really, types of mindset and character that I believe in are working to develop even through this show.


08;05;38;19 - 08;05;31;14

Aaron

Absolutely, yeah. So for those who have not familiarize themselves with it, let's let's read it. Yeah, I'm going to expand that.


08;05;31;14 - 08;05;15;04

Jon

Idea for what's going on. So for the sake of having an enviable position, we'll read the segment that is called the man in the Arena. And then I know that we have some other pieces we want to pull out as part of our discussion that we were not going through the whole speech that you've not read Citizen


08;05;15;04 - 08;04;58;00

Jon

and Republic yet. I highly recommend you do for your own benefit. But yeah, absolutely. OK. So men in the arena, it is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out the strong man stumbles or where the doer of these could have done them better.


08;04;57;13 - 08;04;40;01

Jon

The credit belongs to the man who's actually in the rear, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood drives Balani, who Ayres, who comes short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcoming.


08;04;39;03 - 08;04;17;22

Jon

But who does actually strive to do the deeds and who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions he spends himself in a worthy cause? Who has the best knows in the end, the triumph of high achievement and who had the worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those


08;04;17;22 - 08;04;14;24

Jon

cold and timid souls who neither know victory.


08;04;14;21 - 08;04;08;02

Aaron

Nor where do we start on this one? So many directions.


08;04;07;05 - 08;03;51;17

Jon

I have a fun one. Yeah. So listen, listening to this, I can't help but think of gardens screaming at people about being a practitioner and not a serious everyone's out there theorizing about grunting and theorizing about portraits and bullets.


08;03;51;03 - 08;03;45;11

Jon

I didn't do it. I just checked it my mind. Just do it.


08;03;45;00 - 08;03;23;01

Aaron

There's a strict yeah, because there's a strange sort of. Dance here, because theater is saying or Teddy is saying there is actual honor in defeat and failure and understanding the greater, the greater virtue is to know what to do this than to not know it at all.


08;03;21;20 - 08;03;04;22

Jon

Well, the even more, the greater the greater virtues risking the defeat by means, right? Yes. Which is interesting because. Later in the speech, he's talking about how everyone should get an education, but it better not just be for books.


08;03;04;08 - 08;03;03;17

Aaron

Yeah, right.


08;03;03;01 - 08;02;40;08

Jon

Is there such a limiting factor there? And what I like about it is without knowing the context of the rest of the speech, this is just like a battle cry or something, right? You have to to take the risk and do the hard things, you know, and and to pursue that higher a deal.


08;02;39;24 - 08;02;37;13

Jon

We talk a lot about it.


08;02;36;19 - 08;02;17;10

Aaron

He is like, he's the ideal American man is when we think of like, what built this country? The guy when you think of rugged and tough and and grit? He's definitely on the list. What what he accomplished was not he wasn't one and pretend he was one to get it done.


08;02;17;01 - 08;01;57;23

Jon

Yeah. And I don't think that our general audience is one that is overly critical. You know, I think that I hope that as we have conversations that we are able to intellectually exercise a little bit of thought and not try to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


08;01;57;11 - 08;01;40;24

Jon

Right. So what I'm thinking of here is like in recent years, I've heard that criticism of a lot of our historic figures. And I think that what we have to do is take the good. Contextualize what we know to what was the short and.


08;01;39;20 - 08;01;22;11

Jon

We move on. Right. Forget it also, if something was wrong, it's OK to say that this part of something good, this part of something's bad, right? And move on. So I say that to say, I think we're both aware of the world we're in and we want to push forward and focus on the good for the poor


08;01;22;09 - 08;01;17;26

Jon

. That's right. And hopefully, our children do that for the examples we set, right?


08;01;17;20 - 08;00;55;24

Aaron

Absolutely. I think I think the world you lived in was was similar in some of the challenges they were trying to overcome because obviously we're we're in a mess of people saying this is knowable. This is not and it's a departure from what we're trying to get at the character of people, not just what they are, what


08;00;55;24 - 08;00;47;07

Aaron

they do or how much money they make. This is not unlike what I was dealing with. And if we could maybe give a little backdrop.


08;00;47;06 - 08;00;45;16

Jon

To this feature, yeah, that's perfect.


08;00;45;12 - 08;00;26;08

Aaron

Because I think when I I'm very familiar with it because it's like one of those motivational things you read and it makes you stop being a whiner. And it very much is get in the arena, be the guy who's getting bloody smart, that kind of thing that is the noble pursuit.


08;00;26;07 - 08;00;18;03

Aaron

Do that. And so I read that that's incredible. But it's even more incredible. And I admit when I see that the fact that Teddy was giving this.


08;00;18;03 - 08;00;16;22

Jon

To a very specific.


08;00;16;22 - 09;59;55;04

Aaron

Audience, this is back in 1910, the industrial revolution. Things are changing dramatically. America is a young superpower, just maybe a decade into even being taken seriously by the rest of the world. And here he is in France, and you can imagine was looking down their nose at them and talking about all of Europe.


09;59;54;09 - 09;59;39;29

Aaron

This is old money, old power, old elite ism. And he's he's addressing. And here he is, coming in this kind of scrappy kid. I mean, this is America where we're we're dirty from because we have stuff to do.


09;59;39;28 - 09;59;32;11

Aaron

We're building a nation, right? We're putting railroads together over. Yeah, we are. Yeah, we're not pretty, you know, in on the world's landscape.


09;59;32;07 - 09;59;31;21

Jon

Thank God.


09;59;31;03 - 09;59;09;28

Aaron

Exactly. It's amazing. Like just to go before these very neatly kept people and he's going to have to talk to them and get get their respect. Mm hmm. But he's not going to depart from this is what makes a person a true citizen.


09;59;09;28 - 09;59;03;04

Aaron

As he says as her character, his citizenship is synonymous with character, which I thought was interesting. I wonder if we did that today.


09;59;02;18 - 09;59;00;25

Jon

But I think we should strive to.


09;59;00;21 - 09;58;52;15

Aaron

Yeah, yeah. Let's say that says, well, one of those good character was good character. Is it someone who's educated, well, not just educated.


09;58;52;03 - 09;58;33;17

Jon

It's the sum of the parts. And I pulled out an accent to that one, which which spoke to why character is important. Yeah. And I think if you consider what we're talking about right on the character aspect, it's the sum of the whole.


09;58;33;15 - 09;58;15;05

Jon

Right. So so what are the parts is there's a need for somebody and even more of a sound mind, but above mine embodies character is some of those qualities, which we mean when we speak of a person's for force and courage of their good faith and sense of honor.


09;58;13;07 - 09;57;58;27

Jon

Mm hmm. You know, and then he goes on to something that we talk about a lot on this thing is like, why does things come up so much? Well, it's critically important, right? That's something that you believe is that we something he believes.


09;57;58;27 - 09;57;39;14

Jon

I mean, he basically muscled his way through, as he put it, being a wimpy boy with all these elements in his physical exertion to create a body that was strong and. And the reason he did it and then articulate in the next sentence is the same reason that you and I do this physical fitness is important.


09;57;38;10 - 09;57;21;15

Jon

Developing the body is important, but it's not the end, it's the means to the end. That's right. To better develop the mind and the character. Exactly. And it's the body with the mind, which even there the mind's important combined give you a platform on which you can build your character.


09;57;21;12 - 09;57;05;17

Aaron

That's absolutely right. He said. I believe in exercise for the body is provided that we keep in mind that physical development is here. It is the means and not on it. Right. I believe, of course, in giving to all people in conjunction.


09;57;03;10 - 09;56;47;28

Aaron

But the education was contained much besides book learning in order to be really good. We must ever remember that no keenness and subtleness of intellect, no polish, no cleverness in any way make up for the lack of a great solid quality.


09;56;46;24 - 09;56;30;18

Aaron

That's kind of the veneer, right? Sort of, as I look a certain way, if I if I talk slick, well, then cover the fact that I don't even have a positive outpouring in my electorate. Anybody else know about me is that cover that.


09;56;28;17 - 09;56;19;18

Jon

It's fine because as soon as we're talking, I'm just thinking through how this conversation is rumbling again today. All right, it's.


09;56;19;17 - 09;56;18;27

Aaron

An old problem.


09;56;18;01 - 09;56;00;25

Jon

And to summarize kind of the context that he's describing a decade and a half or so roughly removed from presidency is just finishing a trip to Africa, where he's in a safari, in a hunt. And, you know, he's back in the epicenter of civilization, right?


09;56;00;17 - 09;55;46;11

Jon

And the most renowned oldest university at like stomping grounds right in France. Talking to this? Highly educated. Right? Like the great forefathers of higher education today.


09;55;45;18 - 09;55;38;29

Aaron

Who, who who would dare to comment on how he's coming his hair or how many fingers he's holding the teacup?


09;55;38;25 - 09;55;18;29

Jon

Well, it's just hyper criticality of blacks and supplies for various reasons. And what's interesting to me and he is respectful and we short. We had to step away from the civilization that you guys have achieved because we're doing difficult things to gain America, right?


09;55;18;28 - 09;55;01;03

Jon

So we have a ruggedness out of necessity that's born there. But what's interesting is he. So he's in this thing where he's already. He knows he's being critiqued right. He knows he's been critiquing because nations, our country is being scoffed at as this young nation of like, Wow, you guys are real with this mean, how are you


09;55;01;03 - 09;54;41;23

Jon

going to show up, right? And in one moment, he challenges the old world, right? Europe for being he challenged them to be less critical and remember humanness in the pursuit of character. Yes, exactly. And at the same time.


09;54;41;11 - 09;54;27;12

Jon

And this is a beautiful part. He's challenging his own country, right? Because one of the things he talks about is saying, like one of the qualities that we are hyper ideal, individualistic and we're forgetting our duties, right? In the pursuit of our freedom.


09;54;26;25 - 09;54;07;21

Jon

And there's something interesting there. So you have this counterbalance, right? Between that being being a citizen, right? And showing duty, benefiting your community and. Being a theorist great and being too far removed and the other side of the spectrum, yeah.


09;54;07;08 - 09;53;56;22

Jon

So it's like, OK, in that counterbalance, I just can't help but feel like Darren. That's why we're. That's why we get the reform, because you and I are pursuing a balance in the pursuit of something more. Absolutely.


09;53;54;04 - 09;53;40;20

Aaron

Yeah, we are. I like that you brought up that he's being respectful to because I don't want to be so quick to villainize every European that's listening at the same time, not always feel any kind of animosity towards it.


09;53;40;10 - 09;53;21;26

Aaron

But that but that small percentage that Mars, the rest of the people that's showing up and they're the loudest. The cynic is always a lot of the critic is not like, let's face it, when when critics get involved, they don't represent, they say things like, we all think, but we all don't think, Hey, thank you and maybe


09;53;21;26 - 09;53;05;24

Aaron

one of your friends right now. It's kind of like, make themselves bigger. Like, we're a crowd of people that are against you and says one person, and we have to attack that one person and that one person has as Kant on really the backs of other people.


09;53;05;24 - 09;52;53;20

Aaron

Oftentimes, they benefit from all the hard work and difficulty in the humility of those who've gone before them. But they think themselves enough to stand back and say, Oh, well, I would have built.


09;52;53;20 - 09;52;40;24

Jon

The castle this way. And in looking at all of that, that's where I think there's so much value in the man in the speech, right? Because for me, it's a permission slip. And you know, I think we painted the context correctly.


09;52;40;10 - 09;52;21;20

Jon

He was hyper aware of the fact that he was in a sensitive place, having this conversation right? And he is trying to back and forth the best in all parties concerned. And that's what's causing this. Those who were before our country, you know, he's trying to build friends and respect.


09;52;21;20 - 09;52;08;26

Jon

He's not hurt. He's not being rude or malicious. So, but that's beautiful. And then he's also trying it back in the best of his own right. Yes, it's a huge step up to your right. Step up to being more than we have been.


09;52;08;18 - 09;51;50;18

Jon

Now that we have the freedom, let's create something orders and. And to me, that is that is the call, right? It's not the it's not the heat taking on the perversion of critiquing the critics. As much as there's a now, we can really focus on what matters and what matters, doing the hard work that needs done and


09;51;50;10 - 09;51;35;06

Jon

the permission slip in my mind that comes from what the paragraph we just read is. It's a permission to fail, which I think is important for people to feel that they know it's important for me and, you know, to give that this show can fail.


09;51;34;01 - 09;51;11;14

Jon

Business and building selling the nonprofit Kinsale doesn't matter if it fails. What matters is that it matters how I handle this failure and the next step I take. Absolutely. You know, and the steps I take between now and then or towards success in that permission to be like, OK, if they fail, simply fails.


09;51;11;00 - 09;50;59;13

Jon

All right. Now that permission? Was one of the two critical catalysts from the speech. There have been powerful for me at.


09;50;58;29 - 09;50;50;05

Aaron

The cellular level. And here's the thing, and I don't want to get too off the side, but I think this feeds into bit. Why is it that people are so.


09;50;49;23 - 09;50;48;13

Jon

Afraid to get into the arena?


09;50;47;26 - 09;50;30;12

Aaron

Why is it that they fear, as he says, you know these these people who? Strive valiantly who airs, who comes short again and again, he's talking about the arena person. Yeah, so that which doesn't sound like a real invitation.


09;50;30;02 - 09;50;11;08

Aaron

Like people in this circle, they they fall over and over again. They're a and they well kept and they pretty know they're marred by dust and sweat and blood. Doesn't sound really attractive. Why is it that people would even step into.


09;50;11;08 - 09;49;36;09

Jon

This area and. I think. Everyone has the capacity, and at some point the desire to be somebody strikes and does it? I think. It's a matter of how quickly cycle that and what age. And I think that the two biggest things that keep people from joining or that is the fear of cynicism, the fear of the critiques


09;49;35;28 - 09;49;20;13

Jon

, the fear of the ridicule, the fear of other people's perceptions and how they can crush them right in the field very often, first of all. Yeah, yeah. What's it mean if I feel that in my heart failure? You know, I think that we're what happened to Ricky.


09;49;20;13 - 09;49;04;00

Jon

Bob thinks I'm a failure, you know? And there is a bit of a swagger that I think he's adopted that just come in this record simply and humbly based. And I don't care. Like, do I care deeply? But I'm going to choose to set that aside.


09;49;02;23 - 09;49;01;06

Jon

For the opportunity to try.


09;49;00;27 - 09;48;45;11

Aaron

Absolutely, and it's like I got William also ahead right now, and you may live, you know? But would you trade every day from this day to that that you may have one chance at freedom like this is this is why we push in on the on the episode.


09;48;45;10 - 09;48;38;24

Aaron

Like, we want everyone to get in the arena because we know it's the opportunity to achieve the freedoms that we all.


09;48;38;08 - 09;48;15;29

Jon

Want and maybe everyone doesn't want. But if you're not comfortable pursuing that freedom, please don't try to take it from those who will because we all benefit from it. Everyone benefits from the freedom. Right? Because in that freedom, you have the you and most of the world and these great inventors, you know, paving the way for a


09;48;15;29 - 09;47;57;03

Jon

brighter future that we can then stand on, you know, my shoulder metro and understand the backs and hopefully the accomplishments that we bring to bear, but not on our shoulders and for further progress that but they're also going to have the tools and technology that people like Musk and all his companies and teams are creating, and all


09;47;57;03 - 09;47;54;17

Jon

these other great organizations are pushed further and capability.


09;47;54;00 - 09;47;41;07

Aaron

Oh man, I just to we. I think we should all be humbled by those who've gone before us and the ones that whose names have been have been carved in stone and even the ones that we have. We never knew.


09;47;41;07 - 09;47;25;15

Aaron

But they were part of the mission because I think we can even in this setting with in in Europe and in the back of your old castles of old buildings like I go to Washington, D.C. and it's incredible, but it's pretty young.


09;47;25;11 - 09;47;12;06

Aaron

I mean, like, I get why some people get down on America because we have kind of a bragger, a braggadocious type. But we need to stop and realize the people in the moment weren't ragging at all. They were.


09;47;12;04 - 09;46;54;18

Aaron

They were doing the work for the future, for people who would come after them. And we need to remind the old the people that are just looking in a critical critique of the past that we're we're benefiting from those who really got after it that did get in them.


09;46;54;03 - 09;46;37;26

Jon

For our freedoms. You know, two points to that. So back to the garden group, we started with our commander, David Goggins, U.S. Navy SEAL Piper fitness guy essentially has to help fight the ultimate toughness mindset and just crushes himself, right?


09;46;37;26 - 09;46;20;29

Jon

Right. He just enjoys pain, ultramarathons all the time, things like that. He's hilarious. Check him out and he's motivating. He's inspirational stories. Great and and doesn't go back to the practitioner versus the hero's journey. You want to start and start walking, start running, start doing pushups.


09;46;20;28 - 09;46;07;28

Jon

Vertical done, period end of story. Don't try to make your 50 day plan. Don't try to do all this crap. You can do that if you're actually at training the steps in there as well, right? And and that's where it comes back to this.


09;46;07;28 - 09;45;52;29

Jon

You know, this is the permission slip on the one part to fail, right? And to ignore the criticism that you're face and pursue it. But it's also a permission slip to do, you know, and it's the call to do.


09;45;52;16 - 09;45;37;06

Jon

And what is that? And I think is important. So another piece of backdrop and then another piece of motivation for today, right? At the time, the industrial revolution, like you mentioned, the the celebrities of the day. Mm. Right?


09;45;37;05 - 09;45;23;20

Jon

Yes. And she actually calls as if you're a millionaire, I don't care. But this is, you know, an eloquent way of saying he's like a curvy rich. Why are you rich? Yes. How did you get rich? What are you doing with your riches?


09;45;22;14 - 09;44;59;04

Jon

And I love that because today, you know, because if you're popular. Who cares if you're famous? Who cares if you have great resources? What are you doing? And why did you pursue it right? Because if you're pursuing success for wealth, for the sake of wealth, it's sickening wealth that you have that core, you have that status.


09;44;58;17 - 09;44;54;24

Jon

What are you going to do with it except yourself?


09;44;54;16 - 09;44;32;25

Aaron

Agreed. Agreed. Absolutely. I think there's so many heroes of the industrial revolution. I just I think I think of like Hershey, who whose whole business model he created a town for his workers and his factories. So they would have the ability not only to get to work easily without having to go through all the craziness and travel


09;44;32;25 - 09;44;19;04

Aaron

and trains and everything because people, the miles from work to come in. You did that for them. But he created a township inside of the Hershey, Pennsylvania, was built by a guy who had a vision of a product that wasn't even built yet and knew it was going to do.


09;44;18;13 - 09;44;13;04

Aaron

But before he even made his millions, he built the environment by which he wanted his business.


09;44;13;04 - 09;44;12;11

Jon

Model to live.


09;44;12;11 - 09;44;04;04

Aaron

For him, for the people that would serve it. Mm-Hmm. This is the kind of people that Teddy would be like up like you're using your power and influence. It's really, in.


09;44;04;04 - 09;43;52;09

Jon

Fact, others in a positive way when the reason you want to do that so that the people who were living there and who would have a better existence. Right? Yes. Between their quality of life would be improved. And we're I mean, we've.


09;43;50;24 - 09;43;35;06

Jon

Keyboard, the quality of life we have now to be right. Over the decades and over the centuries, the fact that we are right now and reading this with the technology available and it's comfortable is the result of centuries of sacrifice.


09;43;33;12 - 09;43;27;00

Jon

And all you need is just going to spend three days tilling the Earth by hand and you're grateful for the grocery store and everything.


09;43;25;18 - 09;43;05;08

Aaron

And it's amazing to me that we have the critics of the day just to speak to that. The critics of the day are are discounting like, I've seen this as soon as people who are attacking my capitalism and how you are basically how we built our society.


09;43;05;08 - 09;43;02;14

Jon

For people are really working hard and taking opportunities.


09;43;02;01 - 09;42;52;27

Aaron

While they're critiquing all these things while they're wearing the designer shirts and, you know, living in a house and having your protection around them, it's like.


09;42;52;16 - 09;42;24;06

Jon

Come on, it's easy for the. The immature in the entitled Yeah, throughout the summer, for instance. Right. You know, I think I think there's just a great arrogance there because. Even on the property here that I live on, there's things that wanted to tear down into having it live here for just over a year because I want


09;42;24;06 - 09;42;09;21

Jon

to make sure I understood what was there before I tore it down. You know, I don't want to regret having turned down. And I think that there were things that if we are students of that, we can improve upon them and that is the right answer, right?


09;42;08;27 - 09;41;53;00

Jon

Like, there's things in our world that are perfect. Maybe that need perfection, that need to upon. That's OK. That's I mean, that's what I'm trying to do right now. I want to burn out the 90% myself. That's garbage so that the good stuff can continue to come forth.


09;41;52;26 - 09;41;35;08

Jon

Right? That's OK. Let's do that also in our community, in our country. But at the same time, it's like, I'm not going to shoot myself because of the 92%, right? That's not my mindset. So I'm going to burn out the 90% or the 10%.


09;41;35;08 - 09;41;31;11

Jon

That's good so that over time, the 10% is more and more money.


09;41;30;17 - 09;41;16;25

Aaron

That's that's you take it home. Like, we talk about the critics. I mean, oftentimes in our ourself, we will sit there and go, No, Jon, no, Erin, you know, you can't do this thing. You never been able to do.


09;41;16;25 - 09;41;01;07

Aaron

It never will be able to do it. And you stay in that mindset and you'll never know, as you said, defeat or victory. And you won't know it will always be a question mark. Could you do it? Well, you never know if he's ever tried and never got in the arena and never risk failure.


09;41;00;14 - 09;40;43;15

Jon

When we see 1000 examples of the successful same, how every failure has fueled their success, they they admire, they appreciate it clinging to their failures. They don't want to go back into them. No, but but they're like me without that hellscape I fought through.


09;40;42;28 - 09;40;31;24

Jon

None of this would be. And there's so much going what we've learned in living teaching from that. And wow, that's a lesson. Success magazine interview 20 top CEOs at the top.


09;40;31;24 - 09;40;30;10

Aaron

five influential.


09;40;30;10 - 09;40;29;17

Jon

Moments in their.


09;40;29;09 - 09;40;26;19

Aaron

History, and at least three of them were failure.


09;40;25;21 - 09;40;12;13

Jon

Every one of them well enough that goes back to permission to fail by. Well, you're going to accept that. And instead of being afraid of the failure? Change your mindset. And how will I best deal with, learn from and move through the failure, right?


09;40;12;11 - 09;39;53;14

Jon

Absolutely. That's that permission thing. And the other thing that I think is powerful about this conversation is it's it's a challenge to what are you, why it's not the what why are you 2% or 3%, right? Because in my mind and we've talked about it, find an ideal that's hard to attain and aim for it and align


09;39;53;13 - 09;39;38;21

Jon

your life to accomplish that, right? The better version yourself, right? If you if you look in the mirror deeply enough to realize, well, there's a very small percentage of me that's valuable and the rest is garbage, right? That stinks.


09;39;38;06 - 09;39;19;08

Jon

But the sooner you accept that is, the sooner you can start learning to burn off the deadwood, as Jordan Peterson puts it, or cleave off the flesh or whatever. However, you want to get rid of the inefficiency the the things that damage the relationships, you know, in pursuit of the things that make them strong.


09;39;19;00 - 09;39;17;23

Aaron

I think it changes.


09;39;17;23 - 09;39;13;27

Jon

Everything in the day. You start with a mindset that says, I have a lot to learn.


09;39;13;07 - 09;38;54;12

Aaron

You enter a circle of people and I find that you just you have a softness. To your heart in the sense that I really I'm here to learn. I'm here to contribute something I'll speak only if it helps, but not to show you how much I've already learned.


09;38;53;16 - 09;38;52;17

Aaron

That's not helpful.


09;38;51;16 - 09;38;27;01

Jon

one of them and 100%. And one of the things I've learned, having pondered this over the last decade or so, is that I've been looking or I was looking for a long time. For the right thing to serve right and the right person, the right entity to invest myself in, I am very, very comfortable being the second


09;38;27;00 - 09;38;09;18

Jon

in the guy in the Shadows who makes it happen and. Over the years and through different ventures and kind of just learning that it's OK to feel very good, keep doing, studying and kind of walking through this right, I'm still on this journey.


09;38;09;06 - 09;37;40;00

Jon

I realized that I needed to give my self permission to lead and to create and not to. Bind myself to trying to find a worthy cause or worthy into your person to serve instead, to find an ideal to serve and then realize and accept the responsibility, even provide to lead in the service and pursuit of that ideal


09;37;39;01 - 09;37;18;28

Jon

. And to me, that goes back to, well, what are you working for, right? Do I look forward to some of the luxuries that are afforded with success? You know, yeah, of course. I'm excited for that and how I'll be able to bless my family and stuff with that and some of the personal choice as well.


09;37;18;26 - 09;37;01;28

Jon

But the greatest thing that really helps motivate me is I want to. Have a twofold effect. one for myself, but I'm on my deathbed. If I was to see the best version of myself, I don't want to see it that different from what's laying in the dustbin.


09;37;01;10 - 09;36;40;26

Jon

I really wanted to be pretty dang looks as close as I can. And the second thing is, I want. If at all possible for my sons to be inspired more by my pursuit of a higher character than my family's, yes, because they will notice both.


09;36;39;13 - 09;36;27;24

Jon

But if I could outweigh my feelings with the good, yeah, and they are motivated by the good or having a realistic view of imperfection and what a gift would that be on it?


09;36;27;23 - 09;36;26;07

Aaron

Almost it serves.


09;36;26;04 - 09;36;25;18

Jon

Because.


09;36;24;20 - 09;36;23;20

Aaron

In that sense, if.


09;36;23;09 - 09;36;21;09

Jon

You like you said some of your parts, are you going?


09;36;20;26 - 09;36;06;07

Aaron

If you have lived a life of true giving? Yeah, of course you got stuff. But that almost beckons in people like, wait, hold on a second. I can end up. Altogether, actually, really a great citizen.


09;36;06;07 - 09;36;05;09

Jon

As as it were a.


09;36;04;17 - 09;35;49;08

Aaron

High character. But it looks ugly along the way and invites masses of people to polish it up and say and put on our our nice suit and say, I did all this. And you know, it's pretty clean and neat.


09;35;48;23 - 09;35;47;17

Aaron

It's not very invitational.


09;35;46;24 - 09;35;29;17

Jon

And even looking at the theory. It's funny because you were having some conversations during workouts and during our time together over the years. That's what our friendships based on that my joke a lot about, Oh, it's so fortunate to have these conversations, but the selfishness to want the conversations with each other and other people has never been


09;35;29;17 - 09;35;10;15

Jon

enough for us to do it. We had to subjugate the desire for those conversations to the idea of, I think we shared this. It would be good. And that attitude of. All right. Let's do the scary stuff and see what happens and see if we can share it and see more interesting is why we're sitting here right


09;35;10;15 - 09;34;53;21

Jon

now. You know, so, very much so. And I have to see that we're getting amazing results in the gift of this right is the richness of the conversations, how this is progressing, the types of people we're getting to sit with and hopefully what that is doing.


09;34;53;10 - 09;34;40;22

Jon

And at least on the circle, that's listening right now. The feedback we're getting is it's encouraging, yes, to our ability to serve is what is driving us to do this and we want it to grow. Do we want you?


09;34;40;22 - 09;34;31;09

Jon

We look forward to the exciting some of that and some of the benefits that come with that, of course. But that's not why it started this, and that's not the why that drives us and never will be.


09;34;30;26 - 09;34;26;07

Aaron

Exactly right. Exactly. It has to be more. It's not enough, Jon, to be.


09;34;25;13 - 09;34;22;01

Jon

Smart enough to be strong enough to just have.


09;34;21;22 - 09;34;08;03

Aaron

A position. There's more to it than that, and we have to fight back and be very intentional with what we have and what we've been given, what opportunities we have in front of us. I want to read another part of this because I think it really tells the.


09;34;06;20 - 09;33;44;25

Aaron

Courage, intellect. All the masterful qualities served up to make a man more evil. They're merely used for that man's own advancement with brutal indifference to the rights of others. It speaks ill for the community if the community worships these qualities and treats their possessor as heroes, regardless of whether the qualities are used.


09;33;44;25 - 09;33;27;01

Aaron

Rightly or wrongly, it makes no difference as to the precise way in which the sinister efficiency is shown. It makes no difference whether such a man's force and ability to betray themselves in a career, a money maker or politician, soldier or writer, journalist or popular leader.


09;33;26;20 - 09;33;23;25

Aaron

If a man works for evil, then the more success he is, the.


09;33;23;25 - 09;33;22;00

Jon

More he should be despised and.


09;33;22;00 - 09;33;09;02

Aaron

Condemned by all the upright and far seen in some opposition and notices. Juxtapose those two things. Is it just be? Is it bad to be a soldier or a.


09;33;09;02 - 09;33;07;06

Jon

Speaker or a business.


09;33;07;06 - 09;32;47;04

Aaron

Owner or anything else? Only insomuch as what is what comes out of this is what we're going to do with it. Do we merely worship because we have the position? That's a dangerous thing. It's off. It's like we've said before, it's like, Hey, everybody wants to be the leader until you are the leader because the leader has


09;32;47;04 - 09;32;29;04

Aaron

the highest demand on them to be the most humble and the most open to education. And is their training at the highest level? You're training the the lowest subordinate. This is how we do rhythms. We learn. We find out who we are and then we give it.


09;32;29;03 - 09;32;08;06

Jon

Away to other people. And that is the ideal model. Yeah. But what I love about what you just talked about is. It's a worthy cause that is needed, not self about advancement for its own sake. Right? You know, it just goes back to that we are meant to perceive something in.


09;32;06;20 - 09;31;47;17

Jon

Commune with something greater than ourselves. With in the pursuit of creating and protecting and growing something greater than ourselves. Yes. And I just can't help but think that when you look at this is an introspective tool, right? It's so easy to look at society.


09;31;47;17 - 09;31;36;07

Jon

Get all. My goodness, you have so many people we just want well, for God's sake, because they see the flashy cars and lifestyle on Instagram and all that. And it's like, Well, let's take this closer to home and use this as a full introspection.


09;31;35;28 - 09;31;21;22

Jon

Because if we use this as a tool to develop our own characters, if we get ourselves in order, then we may actually have the chance to effect something around us. Right? And that's that's what I love about this conversation.


09;31;21;22 - 09;30;59;19

Jon

This it's it's a slap in the face to say you're not that great. It's the reminder that if you're not doing things and that you're just trying to theorize and plan and create. You're failing and you're already failing in the worst way because you're failing to even engage in try.


09;30;58;26 - 09;30;50;01

Jon

So you're one of those timid souls. Yeah, right. That we'll never know the flavor of the sea. We'll never know the experience of living.


09;30;49;16 - 09;30;36;23

Aaron

And when you say theorized to to define that these are the people that talk about an action, you would never do actual action, correct? Sounds sounds like the narrative for.


09;30;36;23 - 09;30;22;04

Jon

Society right now. I guess so many people, especially, you know, this is a good example because I had a lot of people over my life. And there's nothing special about what I do physically like. We're having people that can sit second choice.


09;30;21;23 - 09;30;12;04

Jon

These guys are just monsters. But there's still people who will come up and thankfully less now. And they're like, Oh, how can I do this? Or How can I do that? How can you treat? How can I do that?


09;30;12;02 - 09;30;01;29

Jon

And you make me a plan. Things are bad. There's a certain level where that's acceptable and fair and healthy. Like, how can do that? It's OK to drink a gallon of water a day and start walking. And once you do that, let's talk in two weeks or more progressive.


09;30;01;10 - 09;29;47;12

Jon

That's a fair conversation. But the once you're like, Oh, well, can you make me play anything? You do this? I'm like, No. Why would I? You're not showing up to do anything. You're going to take that plane and look at feel good that you have it, and you may do a day or two if you're not willing


09;29;47;12 - 09;29;29;19

Jon

to do the mundane. And that's one of the qualities you have talked about yet. This is both a lofty and the mundane. Throughout the conversation, he's praising the work of tending the house, attending the field of tending the day to day mundane tasks of the job right of serving when necessary.


09;29;29;07 - 09;29;03;10

Jon

And you know, I've spent my life learning to serve and then that's transitioned to learning to live in a more. And a less formal matter, we'd encourage family things like that, but I've equipped myself the ability to serve again when needed or as needed, and I'm OK subjecting myself to do that and I'm OK doing the mundane


09;29;03;10 - 09;28;50;03

Jon

and that's the exciting thing. It's like, OK, you know, we get to have these conversations. What happens? The rest of the week, right? We have all of the tasks of life that if we don't return to, well, diminishes.


09;28;48;20 - 09;28;30;27

Jon

Our existence and our capability having conversations, right? So it's like there is there is beauty and necessity in the day to day. And we ought to do that equally as well. And I think that's one of the things you can really see if you want to judge someone or yourself.


09;28;29;13 - 09;28;11;11

Jon

You know, Kirklees like. What I'm creating as a result of this character, just these other things. So it's like, well, what am I creating? You know, I dare you to ask your closest friends and your spouse. Maybe your family represent your closest inner circle to give a constructive criticism.


09;28;09;23 - 09;28;03;12

Jon

Hey, what are my three strengths? What are a couple of strengths you saved me? And what are a couple of areas that I need to improve and any recommendations I have?


09;28;02;17 - 09;27;52;21

Aaron

Well, that's scary, because you may find out you're not in the arena at all. So, you know, hey, I mean, I've been doing this right? No, I don't. I don't see that quality in here.


09;27;52;12 - 09;27;47;07

Jon

I go again and again got to in the arena and there to have the courage to find that out. Yeah.