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11. Beyond Survival _ Rick Clapp _ Part 2

Updated: Nov 15, 2021


 

Today we are joined by Rick Clapp. During our conversation we explore leadership, work life balance, and how to live abundantly. Our time together uncovers nugget after nugget of insight and wisdom. Rick is a husband of 27 years, father of 6, and founder of "Beyond Survival". Highlights from this episode include: - Theory of Constraints. - The importance of self regulation. - Leading on Empty, and how to fix it. - Journey towards intentionality. - The 5% Framework - The Red, Yellow, Green Scale. - Living abundantly vs. surviving. - The Power of Full Engagement. - Why we need to learn to combine our personal and professional pursuits. Want to learn more? Check Rick's work out at: BEYOND SURVIVAL Did you find value in today’s conversation? SHARE IT!

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09;43;53;18 - 09;43;49;22

Rick

But it's not goal setting per se, meaning I need to work.


09;43;49;22 - 09;43;47;26

Aaron

Out three times a week for my health plan.


09;43;47;17 - 09;43;45;24

Rick

You may need to, but is that truly.


09;43;45;24 - 09;43;44;25

Aaron

Life giving to you?


09;43;44;05 - 09;43;41;25

Rick

Because if you're not doing life, giving things in those.


09;43;41;25 - 09;43;37;21

Aaron

Lines will just become a burden, then back into success or fail.


09;43;37;00 - 09;43;29;02

Rick

Lane versus, you know, Lauren, I love the beach. How do we get to the beach together? That that would be a win, and it's something that.


09;43;29;02 - 09;43;24;28

Aaron

Helps our relationship and we just grow closer together with my.


09;43;24;28 - 09;43;21;05

Rick

Kiddos. It might be, you know, throwing the.


09;43;21;05 - 09;43;18;01

Aaron

Ball out in the backyard of our bar. Something's on the grill.


09;43;18;01 - 09;43;17;24

Rick

And.


09;43;17;24 - 09;43;07;10

Aaron

Catching up on your day. That's very life giving to me. I assume it is to them. But that's the reason why I like to do it is because I enjoy hearing what's going on in their life and is refreshing to me.


09;43;06;22 - 09;43;04;29

Rick

But it would be a fail.


09;43;04;29 - 09;42;58;17

Aaron

If I said two times I have to go for the ball in the back and I don't really care. But that's what being a good dad. You know.


09;42;57;22 - 09;42;52;16

Rick

I think that's nice because you're making time, but it's not fully rooted.


09;42;52;16 - 09;42;45;11

Aaron

It's an authentic because it's complementary versus I really want to spend time. I want to spend time with my friends.


09;42;44;29 - 09;42;44;05

Rick

I want to make sure.


09;42;44;05 - 09;42;37;01

Aaron

That there's a monthly time on our calendar that we know we can count on, that we're going in together if that's what it takes for us to cross paths.


09;42;36;25 - 09;42;13;12

Aaron

I'm going to ask a question for me. Can you say that? What is how do you identify the difference between unknowable life-giving thing and one that maybe you should think about releasing, you know, because you might somebody say, you know, a life giving for me is going away every weekend for fishing trips when they have a family


09;42;13;12 - 09;42;03;00

Aaron

back home or, yeah, you know, how do you temper? Making sure you get the life giving, make sure you're getting filled up as an individual, but at the same time doing what you're supposed to be doing.


09;42;03;00 - 09;42;01;28

Aaron

Get the correct question.


09;42;01;28 - 09;41;56;20

Rick

And I think you'll hear me say a lot. It's both right, because if you were to measure.


09;41;56;20 - 09;41;50;01

Aaron

Regular green and you're going fishing every Saturday, you know, how are you pouring into your family?


09;41;49;09 - 09;41;42;29

Rick

Maybe you are on a Tuesday night and a Thursday night. It just depends on your rhythm. And I think this is.


09;41;42;29 - 09;41;42;10

Aaron

Where.


09;41;41;17 - 09;41;41;04

Rick

Divine.


09;41;41;04 - 09;41;37;29

Aaron

Design comes into play. And wearing your own armor.


09;41;37;04 - 09;41;35;28

Rick

There's a lot of things in life.


09;41;35;28 - 09;41;27;23

Aaron

We're just placed on those that you ought to do this and you have to do this. And I think some of those are based on religious principles. And then, you know, there's some wisdom in there.


09;41;27;01 - 09;41;24;27

Rick

But then on the flip side, you're unique.


09;41;24;05 - 09;41;21;01

Aaron

God's designs are unique. There's a divine design in you.


09;41;21;01 - 09;41;19;10

Rick

And and I.


09;41;19;10 - 09;41;11;15

Aaron

Believe those those passions, those preferences, those dreams are uniquely yours. We might have some similar points.


09;41;10;25 - 09;41;09;03

Rick

And so to me, customizing.


09;41;09;03 - 09;41;04;27

Aaron

How you accomplish what's most important to you, according to you.


09;41;04;00 - 09;41;03;15

Rick

Or I.


09;41;03;15 - 09;41;01;04

Aaron

Heard a phrase that says, you know.


09;41;01;01 - 09;41;00;05

Rick

Do more things that.


09;41;00;05 - 09;40;57;22

Aaron

Help you feel like who you are.


09;40;56;29 - 09;40;56;17

Rick

And it's.


09;40;56;17 - 09;40;55;19

Aaron

Just like, All.


09;40;55;19 - 09;40;55;01

Rick

Right, how do.


09;40;55;01 - 09;40;53;03

Aaron

I play to my strengths in a sense?


09;40;52;15 - 09;40;50;06

Rick

So, you know, you do need to be.


09;40;50;06 - 09;40;48;20

Aaron

Able to go away guilt free.


09;40;47;27 - 09;40;44;14

Rick

And it be life giving. But it isn't. It isn't optional.


09;40;44;14 - 09;40;38;26

Aaron

That you live life giving wise and your life doesn't write for an example. So it's like, Well.


09;40;38;04 - 09;40;36;08

Rick

You know, what's life giving to war and.


09;40;36;08 - 09;40;34;00

Aaron

How do I as a husband help through that for her.


09;40;33;10 - 09;40;30;11

Rick

Because we believe in life giving? So it might be.


09;40;30;02 - 09;40;20;19

Aaron

A 24 hour trip, just in a hotel or a girls trip, and that's like giving to her and mine might be going with some guys, you know?


09;40;20;15 - 09;40;18;00

Rick

And to me, it's not.


09;40;17;21 - 09;40;13;29

Aaron

Early on in marriage. It would be a tussle or negotiation.


09;40;13;18 - 09;40;08;21

Rick

It's like whatever I do, I have to do this. And some of that, I think is fair is unfair that.


09;40;08;21 - 09;40;07;16

Aaron

The husband gets there thinking, that.


09;40;07;09 - 09;40;00;17

Rick

Doesn't. But then on the flip side, I think. Man, when she's in her life-giving lane, I benefit our family.


09;40;00;17 - 09;39;59;29

Aaron

Benefits.


09;39;59;09 - 09;39;58;29

Rick

And I.


09;39;58;29 - 09;39;55;16

Aaron

Want to see her alive just as much as I want to be alive.


09;39;55;01 - 09;39;53;23

Rick

But what makes that what.


09;39;53;23 - 09;39;52;16

Aaron

Makes her alive is different?


09;39;52;08 - 09;39;50;13

Rick

So customizing is.


09;39;50;07 - 09;39;48;27

Aaron

Is where I think escape is a.


09;39;48;27 - 09;39;36;11

Jon

Question for that. What if the partner doesn't want to break away to do this life giving things? Have you experienced that and how do you hope? Overcome that for the benefits of reassessing.


09;39;36;03 - 09;39;32;22

Rick

Yeah, well, I think if it's on mom not wanting.


09;39;32;22 - 09;39;23;23

Aaron

To pass away, I think some of us understanding who she is and some of the motives of why it could be like if I leave, there'll be more work for me.


09;39;23;14 - 09;39;22;16

Rick

To do in academics.


09;39;22;15 - 09;39;20;04

Aaron

I like my life. You know, it's not worth it.


09;39;20;03 - 09;39;14;15

Rick

The exchanges are worth it. Something that can be personality. You know, my wife is.


09;39;14;15 - 09;39;09;14

Aaron

Very detail oriented, perfectionist, law abiding citizen.


09;39;09;00 - 09;39;01;24

Rick

I'm not any of those things, but. And she will. You know, the belief is, you want something done.


09;39;01;20 - 09;38;59;18

Aaron

You get it. You do it yourself. You want it done well.


09;38;59;05 - 09;38;57;01

Rick

And I think, well, that's.


09;38;57;01 - 09;38;52;05

Aaron

True if it's just something I can control. But if it's all in, this is unrealistic.


09;38;51;19 - 09;38;49;06

Rick

So to me, it's kind of like, you know, what about.


09;38;49;06 - 09;38;47;19

Aaron

Bob baby steps in the law if.


09;38;47;16 - 09;38;46;11

Rick

Creating art? Let's just.


09;38;46;11 - 09;38;44;11

Aaron

Try something to do, you know.


09;38;43;24 - 09;38;39;04

Rick

That then will help work because I've found and this is true of leaders.


09;38;39;04 - 09;38;38;17

Aaron

And coaching.


09;38;37;02 - 09;38;30;29

Rick

They can be overwhelmed, and a lot of them are high type type personalities.


09;38;30;29 - 09;38;26;29

Aaron

And this or a whatever the right terminology is.


09;38;26;29 - 09;38;26;02

Rick

And all the.


09;38;26;02 - 09;38;24;17

Aaron

Balloon strings are attached to them.


09;38;23;21 - 09;38;22;29

Rick

And the reality.


09;38;22;29 - 09;38;21;14

Aaron

Is, is they need to entrust.


09;38;20;25 - 09;38;19;12

Rick

But they're scared that the.


09;38;19;12 - 09;38;15;21

Aaron

Systems that they entrusted or the person they entrusted to isn't going to work.


09;38;15;07 - 09;38;14;23

Rick

The mines can.


09;38;14;23 - 09;38;13;29

Aaron

Create double work.


09;38;13;04 - 09;37;59;24

Rick

So to me, it's like, All right, well, that's fair because I understand that. So let's let's figure out a way to create some trust. So it is an all or nothing. Let's take a few baby steps, small wins.


09;37;59;23 - 09;37;57;01

Aaron

I think a great book for this is called Atomic Habits.


09;37;55;16 - 09;37;52;13

Rick

And it's just these little bitty steps that get you down the road.


09;37;52;07 - 09;37;50;02

Aaron

I find it so hard to go back to your question.


09;37;49;10 - 09;37;46;29

Rick

John, I would say, Well, I don't want to have.


09;37;46;29 - 09;37;45;09

Aaron

To convince.


09;37;45;09 - 09;37;38;26

Rick

Everything right now, but I do know that there's something. So it's like I got the kids go.


09;37;38;25 - 09;37;30;08

Aaron

I already scheduled a hotel for you, whether you want to watch TV all day or have a friend or whatever. Your arrest or relax, we got this.


09;37;29;19 - 09;37;29;08

Rick

You know.


09;37;29;07 - 09;37;26;08

Aaron

High output, people sometimes just need to be told. Yeah.


09;37;25;22 - 09;37;23;01

Aaron

I just think there's a trust in the fly in the system.


09;37;23;01 - 09;37;19;04

Rick

And and it has to be tested in in pity us if it fails.


09;37;19;04 - 09;37;18;17

Aaron

Right away.


09;37;18;14 - 09;37;13;00

Aaron

Mm hmm. Because then, yeah, because it just reinforces the belief. Yeah.


09;37;12;23 - 09;37;10;27

Rick

But but the reality is, is.


09;37;10;27 - 09;37;09;24

Aaron

That we're all.


09;37;09;24 - 09;37;06;18

Rick

Finite. We're all limited, limited.


09;37;06;18 - 09;37;03;11

Aaron

Willpower, limited emotions, limited strength, energy.


09;37;02;16 - 09;36;56;13

Rick

And you know, a man will reach the end of a rope and then she might.


09;36;56;13 - 09;36;50;16

Aaron

Be open to some. That's where it goes back to that pain or that great success, or we're willing to change how.


09;36;50;15 - 09;36;32;26

Jon

Much better to get there. Get ahead of that, right? Yeah. You mentioned the concept of trust me, I like it. I've always thought of it as delegation, which I think they're synonymous in the context you described. It became them together, depending on your context, I think was kind of like, 00, I love love that.


09;36;31;08 - 09;36;15;03

Jon

But feeling the connotation of entrusting, you know, whether it's in the home, it's like, you know, growing your brain trust in me that kids are crying. We can get out of here, right? Or it's I'm going to entrust my team member in the workplace to take on this project, right?


09;36;14;26 - 09;36;00;03

Jon

There's. I imagine if it's like, hey, here's your new task versus have entrusted with this project. It almost imparts ownership in a way that's not how wonderful. Yeah, it's an empowering way of saying Here you go, which I really like.


09;35;59;26 - 09;35;59;10

Jon

Yeah, yeah.


09;35;58;06 - 09;35;50;05

Aaron

And its act of surrender on the leader to the mom or the dad or whatever secretary I'm going to yield to give us a go.


09;35;49;13 - 09;35;37;19

Aaron

Yeah. Wow. So that's so when you look at those who are starting to burn out or they're they're coming to the end of themselves and we're talking a little bit of strategy on how to combat that ahead of time.


09;35;36;27 - 09;35;24;06

Aaron

I like what you said about giving it, doing life, giving figure out what you have. That's life giving and make sure you have those in there. Had a conversation prior to me that was like a lightbulb because I'm thinking what?


09;35;23;11 - 09;35;09;11

Aaron

I think a lot of guys will do this to itself. Just be like they'll fall into what if I just do all the things I'm supposed to be doing, then that's life. And then in there, it's sort of like this martyrdom that you put out.


09;35;09;03 - 09;35;02;12

Aaron

It's like five hours deny myself all the time, but it will catch up to you. Yeah, if you're not giving anything back to yourself.


09;35;02;01 - 09;34;59;22

Rick

Yeah, there's tons of.


09;34;59;22 - 09;34;56;19

Aaron

Writings and studies on energy and managing energy.


09;34;56;13 - 09;34;50;25

Rick

But I, I are beyond survival is kind of.


09;34;50;25 - 09;34;42;23

Aaron

Based off of a verse. John 1010, where it says the thief comes the steal can destroy. But I have come that you might have life and have it abundantly.


09;34;41;29 - 09;34;40;16

Rick

And I spent time thinking about what.


09;34;40;16 - 09;34;29;04

Aaron

Does that word life mean and what does abundance mean in my experiencing abundant life? Or am I just surviving as one right? And what you're describing is more surviving, right?


09;34;28;25 - 09;34;22;21

Rick

And honestly, in my burnout journey, I didn't really know what was life giving to me. So Laura and I both.


09;34;22;21 - 09;34;20;27

Aaron

Did this exercise. We took a piece of paper.


09;34;20;09 - 09;34;18;16

Rick

We drew a line down the middle and on the.


09;34;18;16 - 09;34;17;14

Aaron

Left side as like, write.


09;34;17;14 - 09;34;13;01

Rick

Everything that's like giving every person geography place thing in.


09;34;13;01 - 09;34;11;24

Aaron

Our lives, its life giving.


09;34;11;00 - 09;34;09;19

Rick

And then on the other side.


09;34;09;05 - 09;34;06;29

Aaron

Everything that is life sucking and depleting.


09;34;05;14 - 09;34;03;09

Rick

Relationships, things, people.


09;34;03;00 - 09;34;01;08

Aaron

Responsibilities, whatever it was.


09;34;00;15 - 09;33;57;13

Rick

We did that separately and then we came together.


09;33;57;10 - 09;33;56;01

Aaron

So no peeking, no peeking.


09;33;55;25 - 09;33;54;17

Aaron

Yeah. You know, like why?


09;33;53;25 - 09;33;53;01

Aaron

I thought your.


09;33;51;29 - 09;33;48;12

Rick

It's a side story. Help me remember to talk about.


09;33;47;28 - 09;33;46;00

Aaron

Someone I'm coaching that I had a good fight.


09;33;43;29 - 09;33;43;10

Rick

But anyway, that's.


09;33;43;10 - 09;33;42;27

Aaron

Not the point.


09;33;42;14 - 09;33;40;22

Rick

The point is to identify what's.


09;33;40;22 - 09;33;39;24

Aaron

Truly life giving.


09;33;39;16 - 09;33;38;17

Rick

And then the question.


09;33;38;17 - 09;33;35;14

Aaron

Was, are these things happening on a regular basis?


09;33;34;22 - 09;33;33;27

Rick

And then on.


09;33;33;27 - 09;33;29;05

Aaron

The life the fleeting and was. Is there anything on here that we can go ahead and get rid of right now today?


09;33;28;04 - 09;33;19;05

Jon

Well, I want to jump in real quick on that point because you can you categorize people in relationships in the life giving, life sucking.


09;33;19;00 - 09;33;15;06

Aaron

Mm-Hmm. So let's just have some fun. All right.


09;33;14;06 - 09;32;57;19

Jon

So what I think that to me is that if you notice that there's someone in the life giving side, then you want to continue to invest in foster that relationship if they're on the life sucking side and you're going to cease investing in that relationship.


09;32;57;16 - 09;32;55;14

Rick

Maybe you definitely if it's.


09;32;55;14 - 09;32;54;01

Aaron

Personal relationships.


09;32;54;01 - 09;32;53;14

Rick

Meaning.


09;32;53;00 - 09;32;49;04

Aaron

Not work or other reasons why you're.


09;32;48;26 - 09;32;45;05

Rick

In relationships with one another, then I would say yes, you don't.


09;32;45;05 - 09;32;38;21

Aaron

Necessarily have to spend as much time in those relationships. Mm-Hmm. You know, everyone always brings up family.


09;32;38;17 - 09;32;37;12

Rick

Which I think is a.


09;32;37;10 - 09;32;35;25

Aaron

Is a real reality.


09;32;35;16 - 09;32;34;20

Rick

And depending on what.


09;32;34;20 - 09;32;33;28

Aaron

Families we come.


09;32;33;28 - 09;32;30;03

Rick

From. But I think there's healthy boundaries with families.


09;32;30;03 - 09;32;26;09

Aaron

But if you're just talking about friendships and where I spent our time, we go out to eat with.


09;32;25;23 - 09;32;23;14

Rick

And if it's not life-giving, then then why are.


09;32;23;14 - 09;32;22;14

Aaron

You going to perpetuate it?


09;32;22;02 - 09;32;20;27

Rick

Now, here's the.


09;32;20;27 - 09;32;19;27

Aaron

Caveat to it.


09;32;19;07 - 09;32;06;18

Rick

There are people that are put in my life and and and I'm put in their lives where it's kind of a ministry oriented thing. It's like, you know, they're hard to be around, but they need someone.


09;32;06;15 - 09;32;04;14

Aaron

You can walk into what I feel called to be that.


09;32;03;24 - 09;32;02;24

Jon

Kind of part cheese thing.


09;32;02;19 - 09;31;58;04

Rick

Therefore, I choose to engage and I and I and I put it in a category of.


09;31;58;04 - 09;31;56;14

Aaron

Ministry and mentorship, which is.


09;31;56;14 - 09;31;54;01

Rick

OK, but it doesn't necessarily mean we're going to.


09;31;54;01 - 09;31;51;21

Aaron

Be closest friends. That would be unrealistic.


09;31;51;06 - 09;31;34;15

Jon

So, so based on that to I, probably the best way not to go too far down that path is a highlight what I just heard, and I think there's some nuggets in it, right? So because managing relationships is difficult, but it's definitely one of the higher finished items, you know, really more on the art side and the


09;31;34;13 - 09;31;19;17

Jon

side sides of an equation. So, you know, if it's just a friend or just an acquaintance that you have no ties to unless you're putting in an interest, life sucking and really questioning why you're putting into that relationship, you can probably just see your efforts cease and desist.


09;31;19;15 - 09;31;02;18

Jon

Excuse me if if you're bound to them for some reason, whether it be family or work, you know, there's an added level of complexity there. And that's where you just need to be incredibly intentional on defining, creating and adjusting probably mid-flight.


09;31;02;18 - 09;31;01;07

Jon

What healthy boundaries looks like.


09;31;00;18 - 09;30;56;24

Rick

Yeah, I would say another book I read.


09;30;56;24 - 09;30;52;10

Aaron

On the other side of my burnout was called Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud.


09;30;51;04 - 09;30;49;05

Rick

And I read that book to.


09;30;48;24 - 09;30;46;07

Aaron

two to three times a year. And here's why.


09;30;46;06 - 09;30;44;18

Rick

It gives me objective.


09;30;44;18 - 09;30;38;27

Aaron

Criteria and how to navigate this tougher relationships. And it's.


09;30;37;20 - 09;30;35;13

Rick

It is about boundaries, it's about knowing when.


09;30;35;13 - 09;30;27;23

Aaron

You're dealing with someone who's foolish versus wise and even evil. It's, you know, how do you determine something that's helpful?


09;30;25;18 - 09;30;24;00

Rick

How do you how do you know when something is.


09;30;24;00 - 09;30;22;14

Aaron

Hurtful versus horrible?


09;30;22;02 - 09;30;20;22

Rick

You know, some things might be.


09;30;20;22 - 09;30;16;02

Aaron

Hurtful, but you're going to heal from it. Things are hard for you to get away from it.


09;30;15;15 - 09;30;10;05

Rick

And so I think that takes time. And anytime you put those boundaries up, there's going to be.


09;30;10;04 - 09;29;56;10

Aaron

Resistance to it. And I think that's where some of the relational stress comes on early on in my life because I'm more of a peacemaker personality. I would absorb or relate to what others would want, and I would be the casualty of it.


09;29;55;24 - 09;29;55;05

Rick

And it was just.